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PHOTOS: MODEL
Panther II
antoniop
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Lisboa, Portugal
Joined: January 02, 2006
KitMaker: 351 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 04:38 PM UTC
Panther II by: Miloslav Hraban [ BULIVYF ]

Link to Item



If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
KoOkiE
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West-Vlaaderen, Belgium
Joined: April 11, 2007
KitMaker: 2,625 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 04:55 PM UTC
amazing work
SGTJKJ
#041
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Kobenhavn, Denmark
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 9,658 posts
AeroScale: 3,653 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 05:03 PM UTC
Another stunning model from you, Miroslav!! You are like a factory turning out fantastic models

Thanks for sharing
p_szymczyk
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Wojewodztwo Lodzkie, Poland
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 58 posts
AeroScale: 2 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 07:04 PM UTC
Awesome!

Regards
Przemek
JackBlock
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Oregon, United States
Joined: April 13, 2007
KitMaker: 144 posts
AeroScale: 2 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 08:01 PM UTC
All hail Miloslav.

Dave
mark197205
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: November 10, 2003
KitMaker: 1,593 posts
AeroScale: 5 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 08:14 PM UTC
Excellent work Miloslav, that camo is most striking.
TankSGT
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: July 25, 2006
KitMaker: 1,132 posts
AeroScale: 53 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 08:34 PM UTC
Very nice, the cammo is striking. Any theory behind it or since its a concept tank was it for the cool factor because it scores very high.

Tom
H_Ackermans
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Gelderland, Netherlands
Joined: July 11, 2006
KitMaker: 2,229 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 09:40 PM UTC
Looks nice, but it has absolutely nothing to do with a Panther II.

This is not even a what if, this is nothing more than cobbled together bits, I'm sorry.

the camo is nice, but you cannot call this a Panther II.
zokissima
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: February 09, 2004
KitMaker: 259 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 11:31 PM UTC
Just superb in quality of finish, and consistency of execution. Just beautiful.
zokissima
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: February 09, 2004
KitMaker: 259 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 11:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Looks nice, but it has absolutely nothing to do with a Panther II.

This is not even a what if, this is nothing more than cobbled together bits, I'm sorry.

the camo is nice, but you cannot call this a Panther II.


Can you elaborate on this please....

The schmalturn turret would have looked pretty close, granted a bit larger maybe due to the increased armour thickness....

The running gear...well again, from his model, looks like a pretty good 'What if'....

ANyways, not trying to argue with you, just trying to learn. I'd be curious if you'd share your knowledge of the topic..
bulivyf
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Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: April 03, 2006
KitMaker: 2,448 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Posted: Friday, May 11, 2007 - 12:28 AM UTC
Thanks all in your comment.
Miloslav
bulivyf
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Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: April 03, 2006
KitMaker: 2,448 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Posted: Friday, May 11, 2007 - 12:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Looks nice, but it has absolutely nothing to do with a Panther II.

This is not even a what if, this is nothing more than cobbled together bits, I'm sorry.

the camo is nice, but you cannot call this a Panther II.


Can you elaborate on this please....

The schmalturn turret would have looked pretty close, granted a bit larger maybe due to the increased armour thickness....

The running gear...well again, from his model, looks like a pretty good 'What if'....

ANyways, not trying to argue with you, just trying to learn. I'd be curious if you'd share your knowledge of the topic..



I think that this conversion is no elaborate but you must have good and correct Turret,
Here is more detail.
http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=97425#805312
H_Ackermans
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Gelderland, Netherlands
Joined: July 11, 2006
KitMaker: 2,229 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, May 11, 2007 - 04:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Looks nice, but it has absolutely nothing to do with a Panther II.

This is not even a what if, this is nothing more than cobbled together bits, I'm sorry.

the camo is nice, but you cannot call this a Panther II.


Can you elaborate on this please....

The schmalturn turret would have looked pretty close, granted a bit larger maybe due to the increased armour thickness....

The running gear...well again, from his model, looks like a pretty good 'What if'....

ANyways, not trying to argue with you, just trying to learn. I'd be curious if you'd share your knowledge of the topic..



First, a turret for the Panther-II never left the drawing board, and even a final approved design was not even reached before the project was cancelled. Using these designs, in Panzer Tracts 5-4 a turret in hashed lines was drawn, and that looks nothing like the Schmalturm.

Further, the hull is an Ausf. G hull mated to the old Panther-II hull, where as the real Panther-II hull, although similar, share not one single component with the Ausf. G. Dimensions between the 2 differ on just about every element.

The fan grills should be identical to those on the Tiger-B. Flammenvernichter exhausts were not around when the Panther-II was being designed (1942).

The only thing that is close to a Panther-II on this model is the running gear.

All above, that's a Panther-F with an incorrect Schmalturm with 88mm gun.

The mockup for the Schmalturm with 88mm gun looks different, the mantlet is not like this.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but the term Panther-II is being abused too much in reference to models that look nothing like the real machine.
bulivyf
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: April 03, 2006
KitMaker: 2,448 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Posted: Friday, May 11, 2007 - 07:20 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Looks nice, but it has absolutely nothing to do with a Panther II.

This is not even a what if, this is nothing more than cobbled together bits, I'm sorry.

the camo is nice, but you cannot call this a Panther II.



You know only drivel and attack models from next modeler ,
I vait on your work because so far I don`t look your finish model.
I prepare model my Panther II wickedly Drawing H.J.Doyle from Spielberger and Jentz book.
This is for me specialist on German Panzer. You only write what read at their book.
Miloslav
H_Ackermans
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Gelderland, Netherlands
Joined: July 11, 2006
KitMaker: 2,229 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, May 11, 2007 - 08:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Looks nice, but it has absolutely nothing to do with a Panther II.

This is not even a what if, this is nothing more than cobbled together bits, I'm sorry.

the camo is nice, but you cannot call this a Panther II.



You know only drivel and attack models from next modeler ,
I vait on your work because so far I don`t look your finish model.
I prepare model my Panther II wickedly Drawing H.J.Doyle from Spielberger and Jentz book.
This is for me specialist on German Panzer. You only write what read at their book.
Miloslav



You don't have to get personal, Miloslav. Fact is, your Panther II is not a Panther II. PERIOD.

Both Doyle and Jentz do not describe a Panther II the way you built it.

And I'm not churning out models like you do, perhaps I have also other things to do.

I will not change my position over this model you call a Panther-II.

If you had built the Atelier Infinite Panther-II, that would be another case, but so far, it isn't.

And about me knowing only drivel, be advised, I have taken a great deal of time to get into the details of late war Panther-G models, I've taken a great deal of time to get into the details of the Panther-F and I even admit, that I am personally convinced that the Panther-F I'm building is not the way a Panther-F eventually would look.

Because I've researched the vehicle.

That is also why I won't be building a Panther-II unless I win a prize in the lottery and can afford the AI Panther-II resin kit.

So, maybe it is a big shock for you that not everyone admires and drools over this model, but that is it.

This is NOT a Panther-II, no matter how big a spin you give it.
bulivyf
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Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: April 03, 2006
KitMaker: 2,448 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Posted: Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:32 PM UTC
"Very interested", so tank project from 1945 year dont`t have detail from 1945 year because this is your opinion, but you tell on Panther F, that this type can had octopus camo. This is as well very interested but only you opinion.
I don`t need your good commendet for me model, I know very good what I can and what not can. I build my first kit in 1964 year and from this time I have very award and I Have very good commendet from next modeler.
I look on AI Panther II and I don`t understand what is good in this model. On first look, this model is absolutely different from Panther II (Patton tank museum)Still one, your attack is pretty much the same at next modeler.
PantherF
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Indiana, United States
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
AeroScale: 25 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 12:09 AM UTC
Very nice work on the Panther II. Not many of them to compare with actually but rivet counters will cringe anyway.

I like it!


Jeff
H_Ackermans
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Gelderland, Netherlands
Joined: July 11, 2006
KitMaker: 2,229 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 01:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

"Very interested", so tank project from 1945 year dont`t have detail from 1945 year because this is your opinion, but you tell on Panther F, that this type can had octopus camo. This is as well very interested but only you opinion.
I don`t need your good commendet for me model, I know very good what I can and what not can. I build my first kit in 1964 year and from this time I have very award and I Have very good commendet from next modeler.
I look on AI Panther II and I don`t understand what is good in this model. On first look, this model is absolutely different from Panther II (Patton tank museum)Still one, your attack is pretty much the same at next modeler.



1945?

The Panther II was cancelled long before that, 1943.

But I do understand that your ego has been hurt very hard by my comments.

That's not a very good character you are showing, Miloslav. You should be able to accept criticism when you show a model.

And obviously you have a problem with me, as you insist that all I do is attack and belittle others. You might want to check my posts than, it might illuminate you on this view you have of me.

Well now, if that is the case, I have no desire to EVER comment on anything you show here or where ever.

I leave you this well intended advise:

Read up on some NEW information about the Panther II. And also, learn to accept criticism in a way that fits your age, because at this moment, you sound like a child who can't stand anyone not being appreciated by someone.

Oh, and about Octopus on a Panther-F, that is more than likely to be the case, but I see that you base your "facts" on outdated information.

Goodday, sir.
H_Ackermans
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Gelderland, Netherlands
Joined: July 11, 2006
KitMaker: 2,229 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 01:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Very nice work on the Panther II. Not many of them to compare with actually but rivet counters will cringe anyway.

I like it!


Jeff



Rivet counting?

Better call it armour plate counting.
bulivyf
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Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: April 03, 2006
KitMaker: 2,448 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 01:39 AM UTC
This is no critique, this is constantly attack.
I like sober critic on my model. More modeler here is have sober critic, specially about US modern vehicles.
Show what you can for comparison.

Here is drawing from H.J.Doyle.

TU-KNIGHT
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Idaho, United States
Joined: December 06, 2006
KitMaker: 11 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 02:40 AM UTC
nice panther milo. most of all you like the model, and i believe in the end thats what matters. relaxe, drink some wine and eat some cheese

respectfuly yours,

nick morgan
bulivyf
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: April 03, 2006
KitMaker: 2,448 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 02:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

nice panther milo. most of all you like the model, and i believe in the end thats what matters. relaxe, drink some wine and eat some cheese

respectfuly yours,

nick morgan



I agree, I like Irish whisky .
Miloslav
PantherF
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Indiana, United States
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
AeroScale: 25 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 03:28 AM UTC
I really don't like Herbert Ackermans attitude towards modeling. It's either right (to what he thinks is) or it's wrong. That's sad.

If you do not like it, leave it be. He is one of the biggest reasons why I do not post my work. Modeling is an expression, not a lesson learned and I wouldn't seek his opinion.

Just my H.O.


Jeff
jjumbo
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: August 27, 2006
KitMaker: 2,012 posts
AeroScale: 1 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 03:35 AM UTC
Guys, Guys, settle down!!
It's a "Paper Panzer" that never even got beyond the building of a single chassis.
The kit is a "what if" and nothing more.
If the vehicle never existed, so what?

Miroslav, lovely paint job and finish, you should be proud.

Herbert, cool your jets, who cares what it is or isn't called?

The important thing to remember is the enjoyment and satisfaction derived from the building of armour kits.
We do the hobby no good by squabbling, name calling and over the top criticism.

Cheers

jjumbo
gbkirsch
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Ohio, United States
Joined: June 04, 2005
KitMaker: 627 posts
AeroScale: 1 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 03:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I agree, I like Irish whisky .
Miloslav



Milo,

I have always enjoyed your builds. I admire your skill and attention to detail and you have in some cases helped me to refine my own skills. My father who fought in France and was involved in the Battle of the Bulge, saw your model and remembers seeing knocked out versions of your Panther. He said there was a lot of improvised camouflage also. Of course he probably doesn't know much about the many nuances of the German tanks other than he was glad to see them knocked out. During battle there was apparently no time to really look them over. So, from someone who was there, he says, "Good Job"!!!

Thank you,
Gary