Merci de m'avoir ramené à la maison. . . (Thanks for bringing me home)

Greetings All!

In recent weeks I have been doing a bit of research, backdating and detailing a DML / Dragon Spad XIII to an early model version with round wing tips. Since there were several RFC units to have the type I thought I might post some comments while I await the first images to be returned from the photolab.

Please note that I have included on this build brass parts from Tom’s Modelworks ply pockets for the early round tipped Spad XIII types. The following is an excerpt from recent correspondence with Mr. Alan Toelle. He is probably the finest authority on the French 5 colour camouflage extant. Also he knows the Spad XIII from rudder to prop boss. Mr. Toelle’s lifetime studies into various licensed built Spad XIII types and the layout of their cockpits are a ‘must-read’ to the builder/ researcher/ devotee.

"...Mr. Carrick’s drawings of the Spad XIII (the basis for the DML Spad XIII, STL) are in my opinion very accurate - as accurate as they can be at that scale. He did a very conscientious job and knew a lot about the subject..."

"...I provided him with quite a bit of information and we talked over some issues. The wing tips, however should not show the airfoil when viewed from the end as the spars turned down near the ends and the tip bow was flat in the plane of the leading and trailing edge - as a dinner plate laid upside down..."

"...As for the subject [Hangar Queens] Spad XIII types were all Hangar Queens, relatively speaking. They were reported out of service more than 30% of the time on average. Motor replacement was very common but they had all kinds of other maintenance problems aside from damage due to operations. A good example is Joe Eastman’s Spad XIII S.15006 (Squadron Aircraft) #19 of the 94th Aero Squadron. The following are extracts from Eastman’s diary:..."

"...July 24,(1918): My Spad after five changes of oil pumps, was again given me to make a practice flight this morning in preparation for the regular patrol at 15:00 this afternoon. I no more than cleared it off the field when something - a connecting rod - broke - smoke blew into the pit, the entire plane shook with vibration, and I was barely able to regain the field again without accident. This was my lot after nearly a week in fussing with the tub (aircraft). Rankin at luncheon told me to take (Squadron Aircraft)#10, which he said was in good condition. Later I learned it was the machine that (Lts.) Coolidge and Sherry has unsuccessfully attempted to use. I went out to it and found it still in the process of repair. I waited until time for the patrol and learned in that time further of its disquieting departure from a machine in good condition. The motor is an unheard - of make; (?) The throttles are offset and require a new technique in manipulation; its gas thumb lever needed a pair of pliers to move; and neither guns nor sights had ever been tested. Although my habitual appearance is one of cow-like docility and temperamental imperviousness. I left the ground in a state of mind that jumps out of a chair when a door is closed above a whisper. After two minutes in the air, I began to gather the evidence of my switchboard (Instrument Panel.) Both the air and oil pressures were less than half the normal figure - and the important little temperature hand was doing a comedy skit in the region of 105 degrees or 25 degrees hotter than is conducive to successful flying. A few minute spent hopefully in pursuit of the patrol failed to influence the gauges for the better. I piqued (a sharp roll with wings at near vertical) for the field and instead of the temperature cooling it continued to augment in its own cheery fashion. The motor stopped firing over Coulommiers, struggled to life, coughed, missed and revolved feebly by turns letting me down nearer and nearer to an unpromising landscape - which by the grace of GOD, I was enabled to clear...Plane #10 received a new motor..."

"...On 28 July (Eastman again tested his own plane #19): My plane is still in the hospital this morning. I would have taken it to the range, but on testing the motor could throttle no more than 900 RPM - so I look forward to trying the guns and a flight this afternoon..."

"...29 July: Motor troubles still beset my can (aircraft.) In the vain hope that it might have changed its mind, I took it for a tour of the field, but was drenched by overheated water as before. The mechanics, with whose business I’m daily growing more acquainted, are changing the radiator. These planes are certainly causing a lot of trouble as compared to the 28's (Nieuport types) which were at least simple to keep on the line.’

"...10 August: My motor still knocks and vibrates which I hope can be remedied. Spark plugs, I hope..."

"...13 August: My plane developed trouble on patrol...the motor was knocking and the oil no longer passed through the glass (gauge.) At that instant there was the gentle rap of a broken connecting rod on its way through the casting and I could go no further..."

"...7 September: It seems that no day is complete without some remark on motors. At supper it was said that the Hispano 220 is valued at $5,000.00. And after today I’m ready to send my sixth, I believe it is, back to the shops, each having an average life of say seven hours flying!...In order to give me an opportunity to test out my fancied troubles, Thorne sent me above on the field patrol last evening, although knocking like mischief, she carried one up to 4,000 meters...Thanks to these interminable annoyances. I’ve several times come to the point where I could hardly trust myself to declare faulty on the ground what I’ve been positive of in the air. Today as the Captain seemed dubious of my report - I had (Lt.) Jeffers try my bus (aircraft) out; but he was glad to regain the field after making a half turn in it. Steam was shooting off the top a foot high..."

"...And so it went. In a period (discussed) of 75 days, plane # 19 (S.15006) had three motor replacements and was reported as unserviceable on 38 days, which is 50.7% of the time! In addition, it had two forced landings at which point it was condemned.. Alan Toelle"

Here is a machine that has suffered being a bit of a Hangar Queen. It appears she has been relegated to salvage and being parted out. Note the splintered struts.

Here an AEF rigger works inside the fuselage of an Spad XIII. The hatches he has removed were for the "camera compartment" that was more often used for stowage.

Here the oily fingered bretheren coax another Hangar Queen to life.

Here the Hangar Queen of the 138th Aero undergoes an engine change.

Jack Flash:
Aside from a too thin copper tube that suppied oil to the reduction gears that failed to often and radiator the badly leaked, the SPAD XIII was a damn good airplane.

The reduction gears failed through lack oil delivery when the thin wall copper tubing failed. It was a design flaw not a heat treatment on the gears. This information came to me from Lee Branch, a SPAD/Hisso expert.

No.23 Squadron was the only RAF squadron that was equipped twith the SPAD XIIIc1.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Hey Dan;

Alan is of the opinion that the gear housing vibrations were not the best design as the radiator was bolted directly to it. The radiator was double dipped solder and the main problem from AEF records seems to be the joints of the radiator being subjected to this vibration. I wonder about the French units. As we don't have a clear view on their issues.

As you mentioned there was also the "...too thin copper tube that supplied oil to the reduction gears that failed to often and radiator the badly leaked, the SPAD XIII was a damn good airplane..."


"...No.23 Squadron was the only RAF squadron that was equipped with the SPAD XIIIc1..."


Pre April 1918 there were Spad XIII in RFC 19 sqdn right?

It seems that the problem lay with the geared engine of the SPAD XIII, whereas the direct drive engine of the SPAD VII didn't have such problems and was more reliable. Was it the case? It would be another reason that explained why some aces preferred to fly the older VII over the XIII

I seem to recall that the Hispano Suiza geared engine of the SE5, being the same engine as the one mounted in the SPAD suffered the same reliability problems making the SE5/SE5a too an hangar queen.

Hmmm.
Everything I've ever read would seem to say that the fault with the geared Hisso's was a heat treatment issue, and given the gear technology back then, I would not have been surprised... However, I can attest to the affects of bad lubrication to gears in my own experience with my old 60 series Toyota Landcruiser.
So I would not argue with the oil flow theory in the slightest.
Very interesting read above JF.

Cheers,

Hugh

Here is a bit of fun.

And very handy it is too if you want to either detail the foot well of the DML Spad 13 or super detail the power plant of the Roden 1/32 SE5a (which is my intention)...
The Hispano Suiza has always intigued me. It always amazed me that such a design was not taken up more rapidly by automotive engineers.

Notwithstanding that, I am interested that our correspondant above had so many connecting rod failures...

MerlinV; The build I am working on is indeed a DML Spad XIII. I also have an SE 5a Part of Poland set that I am working on and that will have a Hisso possing (maybe) as a Wolseley Viper.

Here is the project as of about two weeks ago.

The Ply pockets from the thread of the same name.

Gentlemen:
I believe the SPAD XIIIc1 radiator leakage problem is attributed to the radiator mounting. On the S.E.5/S.E.5a the radiator is mounted on the forward fuselage frame. On the SPAD XIIIc1 the radiator is directly mounted to the Hisso's reduction gear case. All the engine vibrations are transmitted through the radiator, hence the leakage problem. Just think of the torque on the radiator on engine starts. I was amazed when I found out about the radiator mounting. In my opinion it is bad engineering.

According to Jack Bruce, the British Air Historian, The problem was the reduction gears were improperly heat treated and as a result failed. The information from Lee Branch is plausible and may have contributed to the problem. There was a eight (?) engine manufactures in France making the Hispano-Suiza engines, I can't believe all these firms did not heat treat the gears imporperly, unless the gears drawing called out the incorrect heat treatment. I am inclined the believe Lee Branch's account as a result.

The American pilots I interviewed said what they wanted was a SPAD-SPAD with HISSO-HISSO. not a license built SPAD with a license built HIsso.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Here is a shot of the Spad XIII radiator on its side.

Greetings all;

Some progress to report here. The cockpit has been completed and the "Early Bleriot" camouflage has been applied. I chose this scheme as it has not been presented here yet and I am doing an early production machine. Severe modifications to the kit part using the engine facade needs to be done to fit the resin Hisso I have attached (see previous images.) The kit stiffiners that shroud the forward half of the scratchbuilt engine bearers are too small at the forward edge and if I was to do this again I would scratchbuild them with a larger area. Images in a few days.

May I sneak in a picture of your workshop in the backyard.....

Jan...the lozenge thread is a couple of doors down. But since you posted it and without looking ... What company manufactured the two Fok. D.VII with the radiators facing the camera. ... Tick tick tick!

Did I get the wrongh door anyway? SHOOT! Errmmm OAW? :-)

Greetings all, Here is a bit of fun for my Spad project. Cockpit images of the replica built for the old Champlin Fighter museum, now in the Seattle collection.

I'm still waiting for my machine to show up. How come that you got yours so soon?? Some exchange of business or.....? :-)

Jan old man! Its the DML kit... Shirley you wouldn't think I had an advanced shot of the Eduard kit?

Greetings all;

The top wing has been applied with little or minor fuss. I attached the top wing using the cabane struts first. These are the very shortstruts that angle up from the fuselage to the underside of the top wing. Then I attached the nickel coated photoetch "H" struts. Then the outer pairs are fitted and popped into place.

One note of concern. The two narrowest outer sets of plastic struts ( B 32 X2 ) seem to have become brittle or at least less flexible. I had to replace two rear most interplane struts located by the ailerons. Both snapped with minor flexing. I carved a couple out of contrail strut stock and they flexed right into place fine.

I have built at least seven of these bad boys previously and never had this happen. Maybe it was the nasty head cold I was fighting or the plastic lost some of its flex since its pressing about seven years ago (or more.) Either way I was mildly miffed.

Since the topwing was mostly fixed and I did not want to pop any glue joints I chose to just replace them with plastic and not attempt rigid brass struts. Also there is very little in the way of load bearing on these items.

Below is the completed build.

Here is is the walk around.

The unit insignia is from the 83rd Escadrille. Decals are from the Glencoe issue of their Spad VII - XIII book.




Close up of the guns and motor. The engine is the Engines and Things resin 200hp Hispano-Suiza.

While I still have one or two details to finish I hope this has been informative. I wiil try to answer any on topic questions that you have.

Stunning. The shots in this thread really show how awesomely this came out. Great job, Stephen!

Greetings all;
I have added the detailed reviews to my website.

Thanks Matt for the very kind words!