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Roden's big new SE5A
Merlin
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#017
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Posted: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 01:23 AM UTC


The wait is almost over - Roden''s 1/32 scale SE5A is due for release any time now! This looks like a definite candidate for a Jackflash Special!

Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 02:19 AM UTC
She looks like a beauty! Though the box art markings are most likely for a post war scheme of 56 squadron RAF.



Name: Captain Duncan "GM" Grinnell-Milne
Country: England
Service: Royal Flying Corps & Royal Air Force
Units: 14, 16, 56 (RFC)
214 (RAF)
Victories: 6
Died: November 1973

After serving with his brother in the 7th Royal Fusiliers, Grinnell-Milne was seconded to the Royal Flying Corps in 1915. After training, he joined 16 Squadron in France where he scored his first victory flying the B.E.2. Toward the end of 1915, he was shot down and captured, spending more than two years as a POW before escaping back to France in early 1918. Later that year, Grinnell-Milne assumed command of 56 Squadron and scored 5 more victories as an S.E.5a pilot in the final weeks of the war. In 1919 and 1920, he served with 214 Squadron and 14 Squadron in Egypt. After serving as assistant Air-Attache in Paris, he left the Royal Air Force in 1926 with more than 2000 hours of flight time in various aircraft. During World War II, Grinnell-Milne returned to service, flying Wellington bombers over Libya in 1940 before health problems forced him out of the RAF. He took a job with the BBC, remaining there until 1946. In later life, he became a well known author, publishing several books including his memoirs "Wind in the Wires."

Named his S.E.5a (C1149) "Schweinhund." Recalling his time in the POW camp where his German captors used this name to address prisoners.

Schemes / profiles provided are all for Wolseley Viper powered airframes.

S.E.5A, E1295/A, No 74 Sqn RAF, Major Edward “Mick” Mannock, (73 victories), Northen France, July 1918.
S.E.5A, C1904/Z, No 85 Sqn RAF, flown by Billie Bishop, (72 victories), Summer 1918, France.
RAF SE5a (with Wollseley Viper), C1149 “Sweinhund”, No.56 Sqn RAF, flown Captain Duncan Grinnell-Milne (Sqn CO), late 1918.
S.E.5A, D6856, No 84 Sqn RAF, Capt. A. Beauchamp-Proctor (54 victories), 1918.
RAF SE5a (with Wolseley Viper), F.8005, 25th Aero Squadron, USAS, late 1918.

potential releases.
Merlin
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#017
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Posted: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 02:25 AM UTC
Hi Stephen

Aha! It was C1149! My hasty Google-search for the News item payed off!

All the best

Rowan
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 02:43 AM UTC
Ello, Ello Guvna! Top of the day to you sir! Yes your investigations yielded ripe fruit.

Here is a decent 1/48 build of this scheme by a fellow from Finland who calls himself Mikko.



"...It's SE5a C'1149, flown by Capt D.W. Grinnell-Milne of 56 squadron from October 1918 on. Grinnell-Milne had been a POW and got the not-so-kind name Schweinhund from his German guards. If I've understood right, it is not certain, whether the fuselage was painted red already during the last weeks of the war or only after the armistice. I think it was after the armistice, since RAF policy was quite strictly against colourful personal decorations, wasn't it?..."

http://www.kolumbus.fi/saarela.mikko/Others48.html
Merlin
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Posted: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 05:11 AM UTC
Hi Stephen

That's a beautiful build from Mikko!

So Schweinhund was really red? Wow! Being a bear of very little brains, I'd assumed the colour on the boxtop was PC12 with a major touch of artistic licence. Spectacular!

All the best

Rowan
jRatz
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Posted: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 08:34 AM UTC
Not just due for release, it is sitting on my workbench now (well, right next to it).

Good & bad ...
++ Great Wolseley-Viper engine.
++ Wing ribs are right.
++ The rib/spar effect on all flying surfaces is very well done.
++ Wing airfoil, etc, very well done.
++ Fuselage longerons look good.
++ Good strut, wheel, etc detail.
- - Mold flaws on wing/tail surfaces, can be sanded out.
- - Vickers is a lump.
- - Instrument panel is terrible (big faceless gauges).
- - Inspection panels overthick & still decaled.
- - Other than the W-V, it has basically same parts as 1/48 kit.
- - No rigging diagram.
- - Registration problems on decals

OK, the W-V is great, but this is a fully cowled aircraft so much of that is lost. I would have hoped the 1/32 size would have added detail to the representation, but it did not. I like Roden, but I think they gave the SE less than it deserved. A lot more detail should have and could have been included ...

Nonetheless, an experienced modeler can overcome all these issues.
No telling what I'l end up doing to/for it ... I've got some Copper State stuff on order to help with the instrument panel. And my Windsocks out to help with detailing the cockpit & things ...

This link should get you to my photobucket album for kit photos and close-ups of the wing surface flaws...
http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/jratz/se5a/

It's a bit pricey for what you get, and what you'll have to do to it, but at least we get an Allied aircraft in 1/32 early on ... I urge Roden to keep going with 1/32 WW1 ...

So far I've gotten the surface flaws out. I'm going to start the engine next and go ahead and figure out all the rigging & control wire placement so I can start drilling ...

John
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 09:17 AM UTC
Go John go... I'll try to catch up. For those of you less fortunate in the references section, you are in luck. Shuttleworth Trust has their Se 5a stripped down for a rebuild and recover.
http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=2671&highlight=se5a

Also a list of references can be found here.
1/48 Roden kit review.
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 09:30 AM UTC
From old Warden Aerodrome.
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 09:41 AM UTC
Also here is a bit of fun on the Memorial Flight SE 5a in France.
http://storage.mfa.free.fr/se5photouk.html
jRatz
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Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 08:17 AM UTC
Stephen,
Your cockpit photo is exactly why I'm disappointed in the kit, which is almost barren in the cockpit area. This is particulary frustrating with Roden as they do such a great job of making tiny little, finely detailed parts. Oh, well ...
John
MerlinV
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2007 - 03:28 AM UTC
Greetings John and thanks for an advance overview of the kit.
I have mine on order now from Snowy Mountains Models in Melbourne and they say they should have it by the end of the month (I'm hoping that they mean January!!!).
I will have to get by work space cleared for that, because although I built the Blue max kit about ten years ago and have the 1/48 Roden WV version and both 1/72 versions sitting in my stash, I have not been inspired enough to start them... But in 1/32... The potential for extra detailing is too good to pass up.
I'm going to have to pull my finger out on the Eduard Albatros W4 (My current project of priority).
IMHO, even a kit with "issues" of this subject in 1/32 is most welcome, and Roden are to be given the maximum possible kudos for the service that they have been providing us WW1 modellers in the last few years.
They must be encouraged to keep them coming. I for one will spend my kit buying budget on at least 90% of their Allied subjects.

Cheers,

Hugh
jRatz
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2007 - 07:28 AM UTC
Guys,
I mentioned the wing & decal flaws in my post above.
I had contacted Roden about them and today received a very nice email saying replacements would be sent.

Great customer service !!!

If you get this kit & production flaws, be sure to contact Roden -- if you remember, they also sent replacement wings for their 1/48 SE5a when we pointed out the rib count was wrong.

Great customer service !!!

John
MerlinV
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2007 - 04:44 PM UTC
I emailed them when the Decals in my Felixstowe disintigrated on contact with water and they sent me a whole new set that worked.
I agree, great customer service.

Cheers,

Hugh
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2007 - 04:55 PM UTC
Yes the people at Roden usually do a great job of trying to please the customer.
Merlin
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2007 - 06:19 PM UTC
Hi all

1/32 isn't my normal scale to work in, but I must admit I'm seriously tempted to get one of these beauties myself! Kagero's Legends of Aviation #4 has a very helpful set of drawings (sadly not 1/32) for anyone wanting to add more detail.

All the best

Rowan
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 06:47 AM UTC
Here is a bit of fun for references.
“British Fighter Units 1917-18” by A. Revell, Osprey Pub. Ltd. 1978.
“Fighting Fifty Six” by A. Revell, Aeroplane Monthly Pp. 591 - 596, Nov. 1976
“S.E. 5 Fighter Supreme” by J.M. Bruce, Aeroplane Monthly Pp.264 - 269, May 1977
“S.E. 5 Fighter Supreme” by J.M. Bruce, Aeroplane Monthly Pp. 327 - 331, June 1977.
“S.E. 5 Fighter Supreme” by J.M. Bruce, Aeroplane Monthly Pp. 355 - 360, July 1977.
“S.E. 5 Fighter Supreme” by J.M. Bruce, Aeroplane Monthly Pp. 437 - 442, August 1977.
“S.E. 5 Fighter Supreme” by J.M. Bruce, Aeroplane Monthly Pp. 493 - 498, September 1977.
“S.E. 5 Fighter Supreme” by J.M. Bruce, Aeroplane Monthly Pp. 552 - 558, October 1977.
“S.E. 5 Fighter Supreme” by J.M. Bruce, Aeroplane Monthly Pp. 608 - 613, November 1977.
RAF SE 5a by J.M. Bruce, Datafile Special, Windsock pub.1993.
Royal Flying Corps in WWI by R. Rimell, Osprey Vintage Warbirds series #1, 1985.
The SE 5 by J.M. Bruce, Profile Publications #103, 1966.
The SE 5a by J. M. Bruce, Profile Publications #1, 1964.
JackFlash
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Posted: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 06:46 AM UTC
I have heard that Tom's Modelworks is doing a brass fret for this kit.
jRatz
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Posted: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 07:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I have heard that Tom's Modelworks is doing a brass fret for this kit.



Heard the same thing, I think it is close ...

I've got the engine about 75% done. I got a reprint of a W-V maintenance manual but will probbaly just add plug wires ...

I'm also adding the framework to the fuselage in the cockpit area and then will add some bracing wires ... I have manuals & pictures all over ...

Meanwhile I just keep cleaning up other parts. One thing I did find is that the outer wheel spokes/cover piece does not fit into the wheel !

Too bad the SE5a doesn't qualify for Bloody April !!!

John
MerlinV
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Posted: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 06:53 AM UTC
Good Morrow Gentles.
My Roden 1/32 SE5a arived in the post today...
I am pleased to report, after a cursory scan of the sprues, that none of the moulding issues previously reported by others are in evidence on my example. Almost entirely (see below), the mouldings are crisp, full and free of flash.
There are two exceptions:
The upper main plane shows a slight misalignment of the mould about the center section. This will be easily cleaned up.
The engine has some very minor flash on some of the smaller piping parts and the formost spark plug on the inner face of each cylinder bank is missing... again, easily fixed.

In my opinion, this kit is very much more than just an upsizing of the 1/48 release. There is more surface detail, and more interior detail to be had.
The cockpit looks to be very complete, although I agree that the instruments are rather crude...
Having said that, I have always thought that Roden have never yet captured the correct configuration for the simple seat in the SE5a (a plank, with a chamfer on each front corner), but this is so easily scratch built as to be trivial.

The decals on my box do show some register problems. About 0.15mm out across the board of the white with the rest. This does not seem a lot I know (about 6 thousanths of an inch for you imperial measurement prople), but it is quite obvious. I think I will be masking and painting my roundels anywy, so for me, that is not really an issue.

I am very much looking forward to getting stuck into this one.
The detail on the engine has me excited, welsch plugs, all the piping, Carburettor and air intake details... You could go to town with bolt heads and the like, but I think it is going to build up pretty well OOB.

My plan is to open the engine cowl and expose that lovely piece of work. I will also be removing the fuel piping detail from the upper main plane and replacing with scratch details.

I will post updates as I go...
Might have to start a new thread!

Cheers,

Hugh...
jRatz
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Posted: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 09:10 AM UTC
MerlinV/Hugh

Wait till you get to those 4 steam cocks (?) - part 7E - on the engine. I've lost two already and so have two scratchbuilt !! They are tiny !! Anyway, I cut off the plugs and am putting different ones (rod) in and running some wires back. I'm not going to expose the engine, but I think the outer ones are visible. It is a nice engine -- I have a W-V engine manual & the kit is pretty much right on.

I'm adding a few pieces to represent fuselage framing in the cockpit area and puzzling over why the place for the rudder pedals is a big hole on the bottom (and where the shell chute is, etc). Anyway, I'm working on some cockpit detail ... Some 1/32 aftermarket instruments are due in a few days ...

One suggestion -- the fuselage is so thin (good) that is is hard to keep the two halves together -- I put in some styrene tabs to help out.

Still undecided if I'll try to hollow out the inspection panels & add pulleys or not.

Lots one can do with this thing and I like it better now than when I first got it, although I still think they could have done better ...

John

MerlinV
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Posted: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 03:57 PM UTC
John,
To tell you the truth, I scoured the sprues this morning when I opened the box for those very parts... and as yet, I have not been able to locate them.

Two references you must get hold of if you don't alrady have them are the Windock Datafile Special on the SE5a and the Albatros publications "SE5a in Action". They are invaluable!

A good get on the W-V manual, I would give a substantial body part to get a copy of that!

Please post some photos of your work!

jRatz
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Posted: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 08:10 AM UTC
Hugh,

Not sure what post cost to Oz is in body parts, but here's where I found it.
https://www.esscoaircraft.com/

It is a reprint, but so what ...

I'll do some photos later ... unfortunately this is #3 priority on the bench right now.

John
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 11:08 AM UTC
I bet I can guess what 1 & 2 are...Go John go!
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 12:41 PM UTC
Greetings all; As for the all red fuselage. This comes from Alex Revell of the High and Empty Blue ( history of 56 Sqdn RFC/RAF) to fellow modeler Rick Geisler.

"...it seems Grinnell- Milne mentioned in an interview that he was not allowed to paint the SE5a all red until after the Armistice! This along with his statement in Wind in the Wires leaves room for a partially (red) painted bird. Also of interest is that on the all red bird, "schweinhund" does not appear on the right fuselage at the time of the photos!!..."
jRatz
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Posted: Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 06:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I bet I can guess what 1 & 2 are...Go John go!



Sorry to disappoint you, and myself, but those are right now #4 & #5 !!
I've got two off-topic reviews for IPMS to get done ... fortunately both are ready for the paint shop and then final assembly ...

John