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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
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Lozenge Camouflage 101
fishotter
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Austria
Joined: May 26, 2008
KitMaker: 2 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 12:31 PM UTC
Hello,

This in-depth analysis about lozenge covered fabric is the most complete and informative I have found anywhere. Thank you so much for the enlightenment!
I do have one question about panel orientation. Apparently on chordwise applied wing covers the 6 cloth panels could either be laid out with alternating or with parallel "thrust angles"

Quoted Text

I would like to add that the the panel orientations were alternated. Especially with the OAW airframes. That is panels were turned 180 degrees from the next that it was joined to.


Was the "alternating" version the more common one? Perhaps the various aircraft producing companies had distinctive styles in this regard (as did OAW, as you seem to suggest) ?
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 05:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello, This in-depth analysis about lozenge covered fabric is the most complete and informative I have found anywhere. Thank you so much for the enlightenment!
I do have one question about panel orientation. Apparently on chordwise applied wing covers the 6 cloth panels could either be laid out with alternating or with parallel "thrust angles" . . .Was the "alternating" version the more common one? Perhaps the various aircraft producing companies had distinctive styles in this regard (as did OAW, as you seem to suggest) ?



Greetings fishotter; As near as I can tell the alternating of the panel orientations was the most common. I qualify this with the fact that I haven't seen all the images of lozenge application that I know are in private hands. There are some great images in private collections that I have been eager to see for several years. With what we have in the public domain this is the best information available I can find.
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 05:36 PM UTC
Greetings all;

The passed few days I have been applying lozenge to some kit wings and will shoot some images in the next couple of days. What I have is the American connection's 4 & 5 colour again with his ealry form of texture added by applying another decal. The effects are quite subtle and hardly noticeable at a distance. But close up is very nice indeed.

The texture lays on a clear decal film as its carrier. It takes a bit of a trial on the first piece to get use to working with it but if he produces them I have a great way to work them into place.

I decided also to reach into my stash and do the 4 & 5 colour ex-Eagle Strike lozenge as a comparison.
Rittersbach
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Texas, United States
Joined: August 16, 2007
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Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 12:22 PM UTC
Stephen,

I read earlier in this thread where the American connection was going to have his wares ready for sale back in Feb. It's now almost June and the only one benefiting from them is you. I held my breath on these and am now dead, communicating to you from hell. It's very hot down here, and I'm afraid even if I ever did get my hands on these make believe lozenge, they would do me no good, as you see...all my styrene has melted away. I hope I do get to come back to the hobby one day though. It's cooler in Colorado.
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 02:35 PM UTC
Oh ye of little faith. . .I can only repeat the word given unto me by said manufacturer. Though I must admit having added some of his texture decal to one said wing of a particular model covered in that legendary lozenge I may be able to post another one or two birds in their likeness.

Faint not good Rittersbach. I doth entreat thee! Hold to the thy solitary vision. Faint not at the drought thy feet are scorched with. That grand oasis in in the present distance. It is not a Mirage. Thine eyes squint against the heat of the desert you are cast into. Take heart for the day cometh. I will seek the face of yon owner / operator and show him that his sloth has cursed thee and your flesh is covered in boils and your heart suffers. Wig not out oh faithful minion of the styrene realm.
Dwaynewilly
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New York, United States
Joined: December 15, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 01:28 PM UTC
Huh?
Dwaynewilly
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 05:12 PM UTC
Stephen,

Eduards release of their weekend edition of the Fokker D VII is around the corner, any news about the release of the new four and five color lozenge from the American connection? They sure would come in handy as I have no desire to paint this kit white!

Dwayne
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 09:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Stephen, Eduard's release of their weekend edition of the Fokker D VII is around the corner, any news about the release of the new four and five color lozenge from the American connection? They sure would come in handy as I have no desire to paint this kit white! Dwayne



Greetings Dwayne,
I totally agree with you on this issue. Coincidently I got this on June 27th.

"Stephen:

How are you? I’ve been busy with a lot of freelance lately (make hay while the sun shines), so I’m again playing catch up with my projects.

How go the lozenge builds? When you are done, I’d like to use photos of your builds for the front of the lozenge instructions. If you could photograph them on a plain white or blue background (a sheet of tag board, etc.) that would be most excellent! For the underside I’m thinking just lay the model on its back.

I will need the files at their original resolution since this will be a conventional print project, not web.

I am ready to put the fabric texture into production. You mentioned adding brown to the overall look of the texture. Did you mean switch the color of the texture from black to brown? Or, add a brown tint to the overall clear coat?

The machine gun parts I showed you are in production. I should have them in hand in a month or so. I’m still working on the receivers.

I appreciate your continued support. "
Dwaynewilly
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New York, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 09:09 AM UTC
Stephen,

Anything new from the lozenge crew? Will we be seeing anything soon? Your builds with these look great and with the D VII out now we could sure use them. Hey, maybe you could suggest a sheet of national insignia as well.

Dwayne

P.S. how about that July 1917 Albatros D V lozenge application?
MerlinV
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Victoria, Australia
Joined: November 26, 2006
KitMaker: 607 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 11:41 PM UTC
AAAAGH! I cannot find 1/48 5 Colour Lozenge (of any brand) anywhere.

When American Connection release theirs, I will be in the cue.

Sigh...

Cheers,

Hugh
Dwaynewilly
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New York, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 05:36 AM UTC
Hugh,

Squadron in the U.S.A. has Eduard and Techmod 5 color lozenge in stock. They have to be tinted to make them more accurate. I used the Techmod on the Halberstadt in the feature. I too would like to get my hands on these new decals Stephen has used on a couple builds but when they will be made available is anyones guess. So if you have something on the bench thats ready and don't mind tinting a little Future floor polish with some blue and brown, the Techmod will work.

Dwayne

MerlinV
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 11:06 AM UTC
Hi Dwayne,

Thanks for that. I will have a look for the Techmod stuff. Even Eduards site only had 4 colour sheets available...

I have never dealt with Squadron... Can only try I guess.

Cheers,

Hugh
Repainted
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Östergötland, Sweden
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Posted: Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 03:41 AM UTC
Hi Hugh
I got mine 5-lozenge (Techmod) form Jadar in Poland.
http://www.jadarhobby.pl/index.php?currency=USD&language=en

Jadar also have Parts etch.

Just an option



Larsa Q
MerlinV
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Victoria, Australia
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KitMaker: 607 posts
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Posted: Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 10:09 AM UTC
Oh cool!

I have a history with Jadar! I will try them. I had a look there and could find nothing... I will have another look.

Cheers,

Hugh
MerlinV
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Victoria, Australia
Joined: November 26, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 11:29 PM UTC
I have ordered a set of Techmod Five Colour Lozenge from Jadar (and rib tapes). Jadar to the rescue again! Shame the postage costs are 1.5 times the value of the goods, but then, if you want them in a hurry...

A few questions:

Stephen, the majority of the images in the first few pages of this thread are gone, Can this be aleviated, because I would really like to read the thread again from the beginning.

Also, I noticed (when I was trying to scavange lozenge decals from other kist in my stash) that the Special Hobby Pfalz D. XII "Late" only has upper lozenge in the kit and the instructions reflect this (in that they state that only the Top of the Main Plains had the Lozenge... The lower surface was painted over perhaps?)... Any thoughts on this one anyone?

Cheers,

Hugh
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
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Posted: Friday, August 01, 2008 - 04:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text

". . .A few questions: Stephen, the majority of the images in the first few pages of this thread are gone, Can this be aleviated, because I would really like to read the thread again from the beginning. . ."



Actually Hugh, I just went back and checked there were only two images I had to replace. the others seem to be intact.


Quoted Text

". . .Also, I noticed (when I was trying to scavange lozenge decals from other kist in my stash) that the Special Hobby Pfalz D. XII "Late" only has upper lozenge in the kit and the instructions reflect this (in that they state that only the Top of the Main Plains had the Lozenge... The lower surface was painted over perhaps?)... Any thoughts on this one anyone? Cheers, Hugh"



All issues of the Special Hobby Pfalz D.XII only have the upper lozenge. The profile for the late version was based on photos of a rebuilt machine from the 1950's in California. The fellows that had done the restoration had seen a photo of a Pfalz D.III where the lower wings were overpainted lt. blue and figured it was normal practice or as close as they needed to get without doing the underside lozenge.

See;

Cross & Cockade Intl. Vol. 30 #4 1999 “Pfalz D.XII a Workhorse in Foreign Fields” by some plugger hereabouts.

For a bit of fun on the Special Hobby Pfalz D.XII Click Here.




JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2008 - 05:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

". . .A few questions: Stephen, the majority of the images in the first few pages of this thread are gone, Can this be aleviated, because I would really like to read the thread again from the beginning. . ."



Actually Hugh, I just went back and checked there were only two images I had to replace. the others seem to be intact.



I just went back and checked again and replaced the missing Pegasus images with our own Dwayne Williams build of the Blue Max Halb. CL.II.
MerlinV
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2008 - 08:55 PM UTC
My TechMod decals arrived from Jadar Hobbie yesterday.
Yeah Dwayne, they do look rather bright. Actually identical in colour to the decals that came with the Flashback Siemens Schukert (were they made by Techmod perhaps?).

Also, the rib tapes (Techmod) look very wide... 1/32 of an inch in fact... Which (given that they are ment to be 1/48) would scale up to an inch and a half wide. Any thoughts?

Now, a question.
I have seen many builds that have the seem between strips of fabric Between ribs. Surely it would have been politic to position a seem over a rib so that the rib tape could re-enforce the join?

Cheers,

Hugh
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 03:05 AM UTC
The fabric seams were double stitched and the panels were sewn together at the factory edges. The standard width of fabric would never be fitted to a type of aircraft to go from rib to rib.
MerlinV
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 11:15 AM UTC
Now,
Early on in this thread, it was discussed that each adjacent strip of fabric was flipped 180°.
The Techmod sheet that I have obtained has all the strips oriented the same way.
I should cut the individual strips and flip every other?

Cheers,

Hugh
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 04:31 PM UTC
Greetings Hugh,

I would flip them. The decals are manufactured that way to simplify their process.
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 11:49 PM UTC
The American connection is ready they tell me. Heads up folks. Here is what they look like. 5 colour Day intermediate Dark pattern at left. And the 4 colour at right. I have added some texture to the four colour wings. More later. Remember there are two known variation of the 5 colour. There is the dark (seen here) and the very dark (as done by the Eagle Strike - OOP.)

JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,656 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 11:49 PM UTC
The American connection is ready they tell me. Heads up folks. Here is what they look like. 5 colour Day intermediate Dark pattern on top And the 4 colour on the bottom. I have added some texture to the four colour wings. More later. Remember there are two known variation of the 5 colour.

JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 10:27 AM UTC
Here is the most current info.

". . .I'm waiting for the decals to arrive. When they do — I launch.

I actually opted to do only one texture decal this time around. It is more transparent . . . it is also a warmer brown color. It is the best I could do for a "middle of the road" density. It may be a bit strong for the under surfaces — but on the upper surfaces it is extremely subtle. If this is well received, I will expand the line. . . I've also decided not to include instructions with the lozenge — since it would be virtually the same for each item. Instead I am going to create a resource section on the site with a guide dedicated to their application technique and customization. That way it can be updated as input from modelers is offered. Moreover, most modelers purchasing these will probably already be experienced in their application. . ."
Dwaynewilly
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New York, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 02:27 PM UTC
Excellent news. Looks like they are worth the wait! I think the website approach for instructions is an excellent idea as it will help to keep production costs down. One can only hope that these will be successful enough to lead to some markings for individual aircraft types as well. Excellent

Dwayne