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Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
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The straw that broke the Camel's back?
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 03:04 AM UTC
Hi there

Not quite "Royal", but still very special! Eduard have very generously sent us a sample of their Sopwith Camel Combo:



A lamb to the slaughter? Possibly! I'm going to try to join Stephen Lawson (JackFlash) in building one of the kits. With just an Albatros (and 1/2 a Fokker D.VII) under my belt, this is definitely going to present a real challange to a WW1 amateur like myself! This build will give us the chance both to draw on Stephen's huge experience and see things through a relative WW1 newbie's eyes.

All the best

Rowan
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Posted: Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 03:46 AM UTC
Hi Rowan!

So we have oponents for our Fokkers! That's very nice! But two against four isn't fair...

Jean-Luc
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 03:57 AM UTC
What ho! Jean-Luc!

Numbers mean nothing!... it's all about tactics and experience old boy.... dagga dagga dagga!

Wizard prang!

Rowan
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Posted: Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 04:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Numbers mean nothing!... it's all about tactics and experience old boy.... dagga dagga dagga!



Especially when you have the eyesight of an eagle! :-)

Jean-Luc
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 04:27 AM UTC
There's nothing wrong with my eyesight... who said that?

(I totally blame my monitor - it filters out He 111s because they're too large.)
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 04:48 AM UTC
This is going to be fun. Tally Ho!
Pixilater
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Posted: Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 09:05 AM UTC
Nice deal !

I've been wanting to get that double kit, and Squadron has them for a good price. Won't be untill next month, though (Disability only pays once a month, at the beginning). With all the rigging on that aircraft, I'll have to wait until I become more experienced with it (Ironic, considering I'm listening to Jimi Hendrix right now !).
JPTRR
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Posted: Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

...I'll have to wait until I become more experienced with it (Ironic, considering I'm listening to Jimi Hendrix right now !).

:-) :-) :-) :-)

Hey guys,

I'm envious! I'll work now to finish my 1/48 Blue Max Berg Phoenix D.II. I don't know if Camels met Phoenix in combat, but I saw both in a museum
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

With all the rigging on that aircraft, I'll have to wait until I become more experienced with it (Ironic, considering I'm listening to Jimi Hendrix right now !).



Hi Bill

I know what you mean! It's certailnly going to be a lot more complicated than my previous builds - I was actually daydreaming about how to tackle all the tighteners while I went shopping yesterday! (Was it daydreaming or a waking nightmare?!) :-)

Are you a Hendrix fan too? Cool! I always new you're a man of excellent taste!

All the best

Rowan
JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 07:59 AM UTC
Primarily a preview should be an evaluation on a specific kit before the glue hits the plastic as it were.

First the Combo kit #8060 is literally the Eduard Profipack #8057 with a second full set of plastic sprues, etch metal fret and express masks. The over all cost increase it about $7 - 8.00 USD . For two complete Eduard kits a very nice value.

With the Profipack Eduard went back andf fixed their misidentification problems with their instructions in the first issue Camel kit #8056.

Possible aftermarket sets are the Eagle Strike and Aeromaster decals. Then "Vector" has the Clerget 9 cyl rotary, the 160hp Gnome monosoupape (mostly seen on American purchased Camels) or the 120hp LeRhone 9 cyl rotaries are possible as well

Wish list; for the Eduard Camel we sure could use an aftermarket Bentley rotary and extended cowl. Also the Sopwith F. 1 "Comic" version.
JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 08:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

[Hey guys, I'm envious! I'll work now to finish my 1/48 Blue Max Berg Phoenix D.II. I don't know if Camels met Phoenix in combat, but I saw both in a museum



For Camels over Italy flying against the Austro -Hungarians B6313 flown by Major Barker while he commanded the 139th RAF is an nice representaion. He last flew it in Sept.1918. This is the same Barker that took on three elements of JG. III in a lone Sopwith Snipe on the western front in late 1918. Also 28, 45 and 66 Sqdns RFC / RAF served on the Italian front in 1918.

In the Lafayette Foundation we have the uniform and effects of Canadian Lt. Gerald Birks of 66 Sqdn who flew against Josef Kiss and claimed him as a victory.

See Sopwith Camel Aces of WWI by Franks, Osprey aircraft of the aces #52. Subsection Camels over Italy Pp. 78 - 87.
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, April 28, 2006 - 02:52 PM UTC
Well I have been making some progress on my side of the Camel flight. Thought I might give you all a bit of a head start as well. Here are some of the references I'll be using.

References;
1. General Arrangement Drawings of the F.1 & 2F.1 (printed in 1/48 Scale) by W.R. Titus from Cross & Cockade USA , Vol.7 #1, Pp.81-92, 1966.
2. Royal Naval Shipboard Aircraft Developments 1912 to 1931 by Dick Cronin, Air Britain Pub.1991.
3. Sopwith 2 F.1 Camel by J. M Bruce, Windsock Datafile #6, Albatros Publications, 198?
4. Sopwith Camel, PAM News Intl. Pp641-646, February 1979.
5. Sopwith Camel by J.M.Bruce, Windsock Datafile 26, Albatros Publications, 1991.
6. Sopwith Camel - King of Combat, by C. Bowyer, Aston Pub. Ltd. 1988.
7. Sopwith Fighters by J.M. Bruce, Vintage Warbirds #3, Arms & Armor Press, 1986.
8. The Legendary Sopwith F.1 Camel by Ray Rimell, Scale Models Pp.509-511, October 1978.
9. The Sopwith Camel F.1 by J.M.Bruce Profile #31, Profile Publications 1965.
10. The Camel File by R. Sturdivant & G. Page Air Britain Pub. 1993.
11.The Camel Drivers by Otis Lowell Reed George Roland, Schiffer Books, 2005.
Holdfast
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 12:43 AM UTC
I must have missed this
I have Eduards 2F.1 Sopwith Camel which I was drawn to because the box art shows one with a blue and white checkered nose. From the little info I have I think this is a Navy? Camel that took part in the first raid launched from a ship, the raid was on an airship base I think. Anyway I want to build this sooner rather than later so all infor will be welcome.
What with the F.2B, Camel and now the Fokker D.VII I might be terning to the...............errr............bright side I can certainly see the attraction of WW 1 subjects and you really have to admire the pilots that flew these machines in combat.
Errr what's this about tackling tighteners Rowan?
Mal
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 04:05 AM UTC
Here's a bit of fun. "Bob's Buckles"
http://members.lycos.co.uk/wind1/
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 12:48 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Errr what's this about tackling tighteners Rowan?



Hi Mal

I did a bit of lateral thinking (always painful for a goon like me!) and am going to try combining the two techniques I llustrated in my "making fake chains andd spings" Feature. I reckon I should end up with tiny loops with twisted stems. I bought some fine fusewire yesterday, so I'll give it a go later and post the results.

All the best

Rowan
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 01:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Here are some of the references I'll be using.



Hi Stephen

My Camel refs are a bit more basic! :-) I tried to get the Datafile the other day, but had no luck. I have the old Scale Models magazine at my family home (20 years worth of mags was hard to carry up to London on the train! LOL!), but I've got Ray Rimell's article from Scale Models - 1982 Warplane Special here. Is that a reprint?

I started cleaning up parts for "Black Prince". Eduard incude an optional cutaway fuselage top decking around the guns, but show all the decal options with the standard one. Is that right for my build?

All the best

Rowan
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 02:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Stephen...I started cleaning up parts for "Black Prince". Eduard incude an optional cutaway fuselage top decking around the guns, but show all the decal options with the standard one. Is that right for my build? All the best Rowan



Greetings Rowan Page 6 of the instructions top of the page has the break down of the top deck / cockpit coaming assignments by profile. C 7 has the right side of the cockpit cut lower for easier access to the right Vickers gun breech. Your scheme "E" is right for the modified coaming. The profiles only show the left side of the profile. No worries. Stephen
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 02:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I must have missed this
I have Eduards 2F.1 Sopwith Camel which I was drawn to because the box art shows one with a blue and white checkered nose. From the little info I have I think this is a Navy? Camel that took part in the first raid launched from a ship, the raid was on an airship base I think. Anyway I want to build this sooner rather than later so all infor will be welcome...I can certainly see the attraction of WW 1 subjects and you really have to admire the pilots that flew these machines in combat. Mal



Correct Mal. The Datafile #6 on the Sop. 2F1 "Camel" has an account on this aircraft. You see Eduard has been sourcing the Datafiles for years. The cover of #6 has this machine's profile. Then on page 20 a nice image of Capt. B.A. Smart poses beside this machine. He used it on a flight against the Tondern Airship base on 19 July 1918. Be warned its a Bentley 150hp rotary so there are some differences the Eduard did not include in their instructions for kit #8058 if you want the look of a Bentley you will have to alter your kit item a bit. Regards Stephen
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 02:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Page 6 of the instructions top of the page has the break down of the top deck / cockpit coaming assignments by profile.



Hi Stephen

That's odd - I can't that on my Page 6... the coamings are in the centre of the page and it doesn't key them to the colour schemes. The same is true of the various photoetched panels to attach (PE23, 24, 25 & 26) - I forgot to ask about them! :-)

Cheers

Rowan
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 03:07 PM UTC
Hi again Stephen

I was just looking at the drawings you sent me that include the Bently cowling - it's really quite a different profile, isn't it. I'll have a go at modifying the kit item to look a bit more like it, and include the changes to the engine itself that you mentioned. It might be a bit of a fudge, but we'll see how it looks. Is there an aftermarket alternative available?

All the best

Rowan

JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 08:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi again Stephen
I was just looking at the drawings you sent me that include the Bentley cowling - it's really quite a different profile, isn't it. I'll have a go at modifying the kit item to look a bit more like it, and include the changes to the engine itself that you mentioned. It might be a bit of a fudge, but we'll see how it looks. Is there an aftermarket alternative available? All the best Rowan



Yep it is a bit of a different animal. No aftermarket Bentley 150hp rotary is available that I know of.
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 08:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Page 6 of the instructions top of the page has the break down of the top deck / cockpit coaming assignments by profile.



Hi Stephen

That's odd - I can't that on my Page 6... the coamings are in the centre of the page and it doesn't key them to the colour schemes. The same is true of the various photoetched panels to attach (PE23, 24, 25 & 26) - I forgot to ask about them! :-)

Cheers

Rowan



See below.


Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 08:40 PM UTC
Thanks Stephen

That is totally bizarre! I've got the identical diagrams - but laid out differently on the page and with no mention of which decking goes with which of the colour schemes.

All the best

Rowan
JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 06:01 AM UTC
Mine came from the original Profipack instructions. I noted the difference when I went to the Eduard Website and scanned their online instructions.
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Posted: Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 05:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Be warned its a Bentley 150hp rotary so there are some differences the Eduard did not include in their instructions for kit #8058 if you want the look of a Bentley you will have to alter your kit item a bit.



Thanks Stephen, as I don't have any references do you know of any on the web that would give me what I need?
Mal