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Now Enlist: The Big Three Fighters Campaign
MichaelSatin
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Posted: Monday, September 02, 2019 - 06:06 AM UTC
The upcoming campaign calendar is looking pretty thin so I'm coming up with some ideas for possibilities in the next few months. This once occurred to me this morning.

We all know what the Big Three western fighters of WWII were: Spitfire, Bf109, and P-51. It just so happens that some pretty nice kits of these aircraft have been released in the last couple of years or so. Anyone up for a campaign featuring these famous birds? It wouldn't be limited to any specific kits, they're just an excuse.

Michael
Bigrip74
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Posted: Monday, September 02, 2019 - 08:36 AM UTC
Im in. I have some in my stash. Would a P-51A be allowed?

Bob
RhinoSpit
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Posted: Monday, September 02, 2019 - 06:52 PM UTC
i've a lot of P-51, spitfires and Bf.109 in my stash. So, count me in !

I think the airfix P-51D will be perfect for this campaign.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Monday, September 02, 2019 - 11:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The upcoming campaign calendar is looking pretty thin so I'm coming up with some ideas for possibilities in the next few months. This once occurred to me this morning.

We all know what the Big Three western fighters of WWII were: Spitfire, Bf109, and P-51. It just so happens that some pretty nice kits of these aircraft have been released in the last couple of years or so. Anyone up for a campaign featuring these famous birds? It wouldn't be limited to any specific kits, they're just an excuse.

Michael



Hi, All-

Once again, the Republic P-47-series of Fighters is being given short-shrift... It was the P-47 that broke the back of the Luftwaffe; the P-51 merely applied the "coup de grace"...

I love P-51s, but I love P-47s just as much... Give the P-47 its due, please...

PS- The P-38 and the Fw.190 were no "slouches" of Fighters, either. Neither were the F6F Hellcat, the F4U Corsair, or Japan's A6M-series...
MichaelSatin
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Posted: Tuesday, September 03, 2019 - 12:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi, All-

Once again, the Republic P-47-series of Fighters is being given short-shrift... It was the P-47 that broke the back of the Luftwaffe; the P-51 merely applied the "coup de grace"...

I love P-51s, but I love P-47s just as much... Give the P-47 its due, please...

PS- The P-38 and the Fw.190 were no "slouches" of Fighters, either. Neither were the F6F Hellcat, the F4U Corsair, or Japan's A6M-series...



Dennis,

You are, of course, quite right. All those aircraft were excellent fighters which were essential elements of the air war. Somehow or other, however, it's the Spit, 109, and 'Stang that have stuck in the mind of the public and inspired the most kits over the years. I was just bowing to reality here. I suppose we could do just a "Fighters of WWII" campaign, but that might get a little unwieldy. That's why I went for those three. Maybe we could do a later campaign With some of the others!

Michael
heavyjagdpanzer
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Posted: Tuesday, September 03, 2019 - 12:39 AM UTC
I have eight 109's in my collection, I am game.
AussieReg
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Posted: Tuesday, September 03, 2019 - 01:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You are, of course, quite right. All those aircraft were excellent fighters which were essential elements of the air war. Somehow or other, however, it's the Spit, 109, and 'Stang that have stuck in the mind of the public and inspired the most kits over the years. I was just bowing to reality here. I suppose we could do just a "Fighters of WWII" campaign, but that might get a little unwieldy. That's why I went for those three. Maybe we could do a later campaign With some of the others!

Michael



Another option to consider, the three you have proposed are all inline engines, the P-47, FW-190 and Zero are all radials, perhaps include the 6 as a "WWII Radial and Inline Favourites"

Food for thought.

Cheers, D
md72
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Posted: Tuesday, September 03, 2019 - 02:44 AM UTC
Well, as to Bf-109, I have none in the stash, Spitfire, one egg plane. For P-51, I have 5 unstarted, and 2 in process. Although I would suspect the NA-73, F-6 and P-51H are all outside the scope. There's an odd FW-190 and a Zero out there as well.

For other campaign ideas, will any of these help?
Campaign ideas
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, September 03, 2019 - 08:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hi, All-

Once again, the Republic P-47-series of Fighters is being given short-shrift... It was the P-47 that broke the back of the Luftwaffe; the P-51 merely applied the "coup de grace"...

I love P-51s, but I love P-47s just as much... Give the P-47 its due, please...

PS- The P-38 and the Fw.190 were no "slouches" of Fighters, either. Neither were the F6F Hellcat, the F4U Corsair, or Japan's A6M-series...



Dennis,

You are, of course, quite right. All those aircraft were excellent fighters which were essential elements of the air war. Somehow or other, however, it's the Spit, 109, and 'Stang that have stuck in the mind of the public and inspired the most kits over the years. I was just bowing to reality here. I suppose we could do just a "Fighters of WWII" campaign, but that might get a little unwieldy. That's why I went for those three. Maybe we could do a later campaign With some of the others!

Michael



There's no such thing as "reality" anymore...

OK, take a poll among aircraft modelers and see how many of them will forget to remember, or remember to forget the P-47!

Ask an American WWII USAAF Fighter Pilot, (if you can find one still living) if he will remember this saying:

"If you want glamour, you'll fly a P-51; if you want to come home, you'll fly a P-47..."

'Nuff said...
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 - 12:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Im in. I have some in my stash. Would a P-51A be allowed?

Bob



Hi, Bob!

I could see where the P-51A could be a contender in this campaign, albeit in a slightly different guise. You could, if you have the ambition, modify your P-51A into an RAF Mustang Mk.Ia with a minimum amount of work, that is, if this campaign will encompass ONLY the Air War over Europe.

If however, this campaign will entertain the possibilities available in the Mediterranean, African and Asian Theatres, along with the Domestic American Area of Operations, then I should think that your P-51A could be a prime candidate for this campaign...

Comments, anyone?
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 - 12:50 AM UTC
Why would the NA-73, F-6 or the P-51H be out of the scope of this campaign or be disqualified..?
Bigrip74
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 - 02:27 AM UTC
I think that the P-51A after some research does not qualify.

The legend does not start until the B came along with that fantastic Merlin engine.

So it should be only the Merlin engined P-51 in the Big Three. I have several Bf109's

Bob
MichaelSatin
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 - 02:44 AM UTC
While I agree that "legendary" would, strictly speaking, mean Merlin Mustangs, I wouldn't have a problem allowing all variants. Just to keep things interesting. Same for Spits and 109s as well, of course.

Michael
md72
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 - 03:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Why would the NA-73, F-6 or the P-51H be out of the scope of this campaign or be disqualified..?



Before Michael's last post, the parameters were fighters of WWII. The F-6 was photorecon, the NA-73 was a prototype and never went to combat and the P-51H was post war.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 - 10:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I think that the P-51A after some research does not qualify.

The legend does not start until the B came along with that fantastic Merlin engine.

So it should be only the Merlin engined P-51 in the Big Three. I have several Bf109's

Bob



Hi, Bob & Friends!

Not to be a "contrary" kind of an individual, but let me just mention this:

If the RAF hadn't been so impressed with the British version of the Allison-engined P-51 and P-51A, i.e the Mustang Mk.I and Mk.Ia to begin with, there would NEVER have been a Merlin-engined Mustang... Let me stress that it was the RAF and the British Armaments Commission which first approached North American Aviation with a request to build Fighter Aircraft for Great Britain during the "Blitz Crisis" of 1940-'41. We have the RAF to thank for their foresight in bringing this fine aircraft up to her "full potential" when they first installed a Merlin in a Mustang Mk.I air-frame. In the meantime, the British authorities and the RAF also arranged with the US auto-maker, Packard, to build Rolls-Royce Merlins for the RAF, under license. With the license-built Packard/Rolls-Royce Merlin Aircraft Engines being built in the United States, this took a tremendous strain off British Industry, much to the benefit of Great Britain and her Allies. The Merlin being squeezed into a Mustang Mk.I/P-51 air-frame ALMOST NEVER HAPPENED, if a few enthusiastic RAF Officers and Technicians hadn't recognized the potential of the Mustang and the Merlin, combined...

Let me also mention that the A-36A Dive Bomber version, the P-51, the P-51A and the F-6A Photo-Recon version, all of which still used the Allison Engine, all performed well enough for USAAF service in the various Theatres of Operations which I've already put forward in a previous post in this thread.

All of these early P-51/A-36/F-6 types performed yeoman-service at low-to-medium altitudes, and were superior in performance to the P-39/P-400 and P-40, which "held the line" in the South Pacific, China, Africa, the Mediterranean, Burma, Australia and New Zealand, until better Allied Aircraft could be made available.

I'm surprised no one mentioned the P-39/P-400 and the P-40, prior to my bringing them up in this conversation...

VR, Dennis

PS-

As to Bf.109s, if one wants to "split-hairs" over P-51s, P-51As, A-36As, Mustang Mk.Is and Mk.Ias, then I can also point out that the really "legendary" '109s didn't come about until the advent of the "Gustav"-models. Actually, I don't really feel that my prior statement would be true, as the Spitfire Mk.I/Mk.II was a contemporary of, and a near-equal, pound for pound, of the Bf.109E-series... (I'd prefer the Spit, hands down...)

Personally-speaking, the Bf.109 was a COMPLETE DEPARTURE from the "fabric and wood" string-bag kites of the "WWI and inter-war era". The "Hurri" was sort of a hold-over, but she gave much credit where credit was due to Sidney Camm's excellent original design, when most Aviators of the 1930s were loath to accept the monoplane and retractable Landing Gear...

The Bf.109 required Wing Slats in order to keep it in the air while executing tight, turning maneuvers, something that contemporary fighters of the '109 didn't need in order to stay aloft. Ask any Mitsubishi A6M Pilot about maneuver... By comparison, Japanese A6M Pilots felt that the Bf.109 "flew like a truck"... ("Lorry" for our British and Commonwealth Friends)

M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 - 12:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Why would the NA-73, F-6 or the P-51H be out of the scope of this campaign or be disqualified..?



Before Michael's last post, the parameters were fighters of WWII. The F-6 was photorecon, the NA-73 was a prototype and never went to combat and the P-51H was post war.



All of which were being developed DURING the War, (September, 1939 to September, 1945), so why not..? If these valuable developments and specialized aircraft are to be disqualified from entry, sub-types and different versions of the "Big Three" which were developed DURING the War should also be subject to scrutiny and possible disqualification.

For example:

The various P.R.U. Spitfires, Griffon-Engined Spitfires,

"Pressurized" Bf.109s, "Zwilling-Bf.109s",

Inglewood and Dallas-built "Bubble-Top" P-51Ds, P-51Ks and so forth.

Remember that the earlier P-51B/C "Razor-backed"-models had different performance parameters and flight-characteristics than their later "Bubble-Topped" Sisters; does that make them DIFFERENT Aircraft altogether..?

Are the various Marks of earlier 1939-1942 Spitfires to be disqualified because they don't "measure up" to the performance of later Mk.IXs and Griffon-Engined Marks..? DITTO, the early Bf.109A-D versions versus the later G through K-model Bf.109s...

PS- The F-6A was perfectly capable of defending herself, AND shooting down an enemy aircraft with her FOUR 20mm Cannon, even IF that wasn't her job in the first place...
MichaelSatin
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Posted: Thursday, September 05, 2019 - 09:13 AM UTC
Ok, let's just calm down here. This doesn't have to be this complicated.

My suggestion is a campaign for Spitfires, Bf109s, and P-51s. Any and all variants of these three would be acceptable, up to and including the post-war re-engined 109s and the F-82.

That's the proposal. Let me know if you're up for that or not and we'll see if we have enough to get it on the schedule.

Michael
Bigrip74
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Posted: Thursday, September 05, 2019 - 09:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ok, let's just calm down here. This doesn't have to be this complicated.

My suggestion is a campaign for Spitfires, Bf109s, and P-51s. Any and all variants of these three would be acceptable, up to and including the post-war re-engined 109s and the F-82.

That's the proposal. Let me know if you're up for that or not and we'll see if we have enough to get it on the schedule.

Michael



Im in.

Bob
Naseby
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Slovakia
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Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2019 - 09:58 PM UTC
What about Inline legends vs. Radial legends. Mustang, Spitfire, Me-109, Warhawk and Yak vs Zero, Thunderbolt, Fw-190, Lavochkin, Hellcat. And since the "Radials" are already plotting a campaign on their own under #Thunderbolt matters, lets go with exclusive participation - one can enlist in only one campaign from both. That should make things interesting
PasiAhopelto
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Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2019 - 11:14 PM UTC
It looks like I'll be getting Eduard's Chattanooga Choo Choo after all, so would join either inline legends or the original big three campaign.

Naseby, maybe I misunderstood something, but why prevent joining both campaigns? I think I have time for both, because single engine tail draggers with relatively simple paint scheme don't require much effort.
MichaelSatin
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Posted: Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 03:10 AM UTC
The radial campaign is already ready to go, so I agree with Pasi.

Michael
Naseby
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Posted: Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 06:08 AM UTC
Aaah, didnt notice that the Radial Boys have already pushed through their campaign I was hoping for a bit more friendly competition, thats why I suggested to make it exclusively
Bigrip74
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Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 12:54 PM UTC
I count (9) we only need one more!
Naseby
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Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 07:35 AM UTC
Ok, I have the 1/32 P-51B in the stash from Trumpy, so Im in. I feel I will regret this very soon....
Bigrip74
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Posted: Thursday, September 12, 2019 - 10:00 AM UTC
I count (9) just one more to go.

Bob