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Cold War (1950-1974)
Discuss the aircraft modeling subjects during the Cold War period.
Hosted by Tim Hatton
1:48 F-4D Phantom II - Revell
bookszad
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: January 11, 2017
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 9 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 01, 2018 - 04:53 AM UTC
So I'm back at the modelling/dining table for the first time in 16 years (my last model being a 1/72 Lancaster when I was 11 I think?) - with this bad boy.



I cracked her open the other night and had a bit of a fiddle - scared of breaking anything! I cut the cockpit components and the two main hunks of fuselage off the sprue and tried to clean them up a bit, and did a test fit. That's all so far



The cockpit, frankly, terrifies me. I plan on posing it with the cockpit open, so I don't want to just ignore it - but I'm also not sure I have the skill to pull off anything too crazy. Is just a black/grey airbrush and a lighter drybrush to bring out the details enough? Or should I get some colour PE/decals? Or just pick out a few details with colour? Advice for the new guy, please

In terms of paint scheme and such, since the only options in-box are the Hawaiian National Guard and another obscure livery, I'm gonna spring for a decal set for Gunfighter 1 of the 389th Fighter Squadron, based in Da Nang during the Vietnam War.



Thanks for dropping by and if you have any advice or anything, please throw it at me.

Cheers!
c4willy
#305
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Christchurch, New Zealand
Joined: February 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,673 posts
AeroScale: 1,517 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 01, 2018 - 05:06 AM UTC
Advice? Well you came to the right place there are plenty here willing to help! I guess it all boils down to what you want to achieve? There are plenty of resin details sets to make the cockpit just come alive but I don't think you'd want to push your skills envelope just yet.

I'm not a jet guy by any stretch of the imagination but I'd say your going in the right direction base coat, pick out some highlights for a little colour, highlight with a dry brush and then a wash of some sort to add shadows and dirt. I would suggest getting resin bang seats as they are a simple addition and they will make a huge difference to the look of the cockpit. (the cost is also usually small) And traditionally the kit offerings are pretty soft on details.


I'm also pretty sure there are a few others willing to wade in and add their voice. And welcome back to the fold I think you'll find the hobby has changed mightily over the intervening years.
bookszad
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: January 11, 2017
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 9 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 04, 2018 - 07:21 AM UTC
I've done as you suggested, Chris, and picked myself up a pair of resin ejector seats - while they're on their way I've been busying myself with figuring out some other details, including picking up a PE cockpit ladder (as I want it posed similar to the photo in the original post), and figuring out what the loadout will be.

According to Wikipedia, the Phantoms operating out of Da Nang were used in support of Rolling Thunder, and their standard loadout would be 4 each of Sidewinders and Sparrows, and 8x 750 pound M117 bombs. While the kit comes with 4 each of Sidewinders and Sparrows, but doesn't seem to have any M117's. Might need to pick up a weapons set if I want to go that route, though that's a while away

Oh also, by a happy coincidence, May 27th will be the 60th Anniversary of the F-4 Phantom, so if I pull my finger out I may be finished in time for the anniversary!
SpeedyJ
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Bangkok, Thailand / ไทย
Joined: September 17, 2013
KitMaker: 1,195 posts
AeroScale: 155 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 04, 2018 - 10:23 AM UTC
Hi Liam.
I will be following this one. Love Phantoms from this type and era.
Some very good reference on building Vietnam Era Phantoms can be read from this link:
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234992986-172-mcdd-f-4-c-phantom-ii-hasegawamonogram-kitbash-completed/&page=38
Not the scale of your build, but the modeller is an artist and the comments from a pilot who flew the plan are of a great help and inspiration.

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
phantom_phanatic309
#372
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United Kingdom
Joined: March 10, 2010
KitMaker: 2,280 posts
AeroScale: 1,418 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 04, 2018 - 01:06 PM UTC
Hi Liam,
Always great to see a Phantom being built.
If I can give some advice on the weapons fit Wikipedia suggests, I think they have made a mistake.
Air Force F-4's had a different inboard wing pylon to the Navy and Marine versions that didn't allow the carriage of Sidewinders and bombs. Something to do with how they were wired. So it should have either Sidewinders or a TER with bombs. A load out of Sidewinders, Sparrows and M117's sounds like a typical Marine load. I think Da Nang was a USMC base, maybe others can confirm?

As for the bombs you want, Hasegawa do some weapons sets that will have what you want
Hope this helps.
bookszad
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: January 11, 2017
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 9 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 04, 2018 - 02:02 PM UTC
Thanks for your replied, Speedy and Stephen! Wikipedia wrong? Never!

It does appear that it was the 389th Fighter Squadron was based in Da Nang in late 1966 (where the photo in the OP was taken), found through some more sleuthing;


Quoted Text

In early 1965, the squadron transitioned to the F-4C Phantom II. The wing was transferred to Phan Rang AB in South Vietnam in March 1966 and moved to Da Nang AB in October.



So seems like Wikipedia got the loadout wrong. So it'd be more likely to be sidewinders on the pylons and then bombs down the middle on a USAF bird? While I'm a big fan of looking at planes, I'm unfortunately pretty new to the ins and outs of them I'm afraid. I appreciate all your help!
phantom_phanatic309
#372
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United Kingdom
Joined: March 10, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, February 04, 2018 - 05:45 PM UTC
Happy to help.
Yes if you want to include the Sidewinders and bombs it would be an MER on the centreline. Probably a good thing because I don't think Revell included a belly tank with the kit. I have it in my stash but at work at the minute.
Thinking about the kit itself, did they mold the seat bottoms the into the cockpit floor? If so that could cause some problems when you replace them with your resin seats.
bookszad
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: January 11, 2017
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 9 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 04, 2018 - 07:32 PM UTC
They did, yeah - the cockpit has no sidewalls though so it should be a fairly easy job to cut them out. I say that now
phantom_phanatic309
#372
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United Kingdom
Joined: March 10, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, February 04, 2018 - 09:00 PM UTC
Could be tricky but worth it in the end.
I couldn't remember if it was this or the Esci/Italeri F-4 that was molded like it.

Depending on how fussed you are about accuracy you might have to switch the Sidewinders too. Depends what is in the kit. Going to dig mine out and have a look when I get home. Pretty sure it has post-Nam L's but might have optional early versions.
bookszad
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: January 11, 2017
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 9 posts
Posted: Monday, February 05, 2018 - 05:31 AM UTC
I'd like to go for accuracy - within reason. Trying to not go too crazy with my first build back

On page 5 of the instructions you can see the missiles included - 4 sparrows, 4 sidewinders, and (I think) 4 more sidewinders? But I'm not good with missiles
phantom_phanatic309
#372
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United Kingdom
Joined: March 10, 2010
KitMaker: 2,280 posts
AeroScale: 1,418 posts
Posted: Monday, February 05, 2018 - 05:49 AM UTC
Yeah the others are AIM-9B's so appropriate for the aircraft you are building.
In all honesty you could just use what the kit provides and build it with the gunpod, like in the photo, and a full load of missiles. Would save you the time and money in tracking down the Hasegawa weapons sets for bombs.
Hope it helps.


bookszad
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: January 11, 2017
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 9 posts
Posted: Monday, February 05, 2018 - 08:08 AM UTC
Considering how much I'm tip-toeing around the build, it'll probably be a while before I finalise loadout anyway, so I may do a bit more research I appreciate all the advice!
SpeedyJ
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Bangkok, Thailand / ไทย
Joined: September 17, 2013
KitMaker: 1,195 posts
AeroScale: 155 posts
Posted: Monday, February 05, 2018 - 10:22 AM UTC
Hi Liam,
Check this link. A lot of information on load outs for Phantoms. Nice clip from Ubon (Thailand) during Vietnam. F4 C/D based there.
http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/295427-f-4-unusual-load/&

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
SpeedyJ
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Bangkok, Thailand / ไทย
Joined: September 17, 2013
KitMaker: 1,195 posts
AeroScale: 155 posts
Posted: Monday, February 05, 2018 - 10:50 AM UTC
Hello again,

And another link, very useful. I'v become a fan of Gene K. Explains missiles vs bombs as a load out.
http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/165857-phantom-help/&tab=comments#comment-1529856

bookszad
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: January 11, 2017
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 9 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 08, 2018 - 07:04 AM UTC
Thanks for the links, Speedy! Interesting reading and video

I found this list of F-4C loadouts, and going off the photos attached I'll probably go with M117 Strike 1



Sorry for the lack of actual updates - life has been hectic for the last week or so and I haven't had a chance to do much. Gonna endeavor to get the flight seat bases cut off the cockpit and cleaned up over the weekend.