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World War II: USA
Aircraft of the United States in WWII.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
Interest in nose correction for the HK B-17
KPHB17FE
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Illinois, United States
Joined: January 12, 2015
KitMaker: 216 posts
AeroScale: 216 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 29, 2016 - 10:37 PM UTC
Just wondering if there would be interest in a resin part for the top of the nose of the HK B-17's. Bulkhead 3 is not round as the kit has it. Starting at 1A, the nose gradually flattens out. This changes the profile, the windscreen, and the instrument panel. Some have noticed, some have not. And some who have noticed are not bothered by it. So at this point, I am just wondering how many folks would buy the corrected nose piece. It would be a resin insert for the upper nose. This drawing used the Boeing information and you can see the difference:

amoz02t
#192
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: November 25, 2009
KitMaker: 1,225 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2018 - 11:39 PM UTC
I see there was little response to this post? Perhaps moved to another forum or facebook discussion? I guess accepting that all models are wrong but some are useful makes this a lower priority for most. I am curious if this is for both the HK B-17G & HK B-17F kits? My apologies if I am behind in learning about this. All the best- Stuart
GastonMarty
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: April 19, 2008
KitMaker: 588 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 02:29 PM UTC


Just a nose piece is not enough: A whole new canopy, adapted to the new nose piece has to be done, and might then reveal that the entire "spine blister cabin" of the HK kit is too tall...

The nose side windows are off as well.

In general, it is known by those who care that the HK kit is a dog...: You would have to demonstrate the success of the correction with prototype photos before people will show any interest in it: Talk is just talk.

There should be very great interest if the result is convincing, but there are many hoops to jump through, and no one will believe it until they see it.

Gaston
amoz02t
#192
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: November 25, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 10:46 PM UTC
Gaston- Thank you for the reply. From your response, I assume that HK did NOT fix the nose on the later B-17F kit? It has the same rounded top issue as well?

Thanks- Stuart
MichaelSatin
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
AEROSCALE
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 3,241 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 31, 2018 - 12:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Just a nose piece is not enough: A whole new canopy, adapted to the new nose piece has to be done, and might then reveal that the entire "spine blister cabin" of the HK kit is too tall...

The nose side windows are off as well.

In general, it is known by those who care that the HK kit is a dog...: You would have to demonstrate the success of the correction with prototype photos before people will show any interest in it: Talk is just talk.

There should be very great interest if the result is convincing, but there are many hoops to jump through, and no one will believe it until they see it.

Gaston



He's baaaaaaacccccckkkkk!!!

Michael
KPHB17FE
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Illinois, United States
Joined: January 12, 2015
KitMaker: 216 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 31, 2018 - 04:42 AM UTC
Well, as I first posted this in December of 2016, I would say there is no interest in such a thing. I was curious and now I know the answer.
GastonMarty
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: April 19, 2008
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Posted: Friday, August 31, 2018 - 01:15 PM UTC
Yes, it is the same fuselage parts for the G and E/F, except for the left half, where HK provided a separate crew access door...

As for the lack of interest, it is probably because the offered fix by the OP showed a lack of understanding of the severity of the nose section issue: To offer a fix for the area under the windscreen essentially requires changing everything forward of the wing leading edge. There are knock-on effects to flattening the top...

If you build it they will come... Nobody even knew the 1/48th Catalina tailfin area had a far too thick cross-section, until Belcher Bits pointed it out by providing a new resin tail (with photos). Yet it became his best selling conversion of them all, with over 800 sold...

Gaston
KPHB17FE
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Illinois, United States
Joined: January 12, 2015
KitMaker: 216 posts
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Posted: Saturday, September 01, 2018 - 01:59 AM UTC
If you are indicating I do not understand what is involved you are sadly mistaken. Yes, I simplified it a bit for the masses. I don't guess or use red lines on photographs, I have the engineering drawings and the background to use them. You always come across as a pompous ass and have done so yet again.
Merlin
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#017
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United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, September 01, 2018 - 08:20 AM UTC
Hi Carl

I'm sure many on Kitmaker would love your answer to Gaston to be the final comment in this thread(!), but I'll leave it open (with a note that my finger's hovering over the lock button) in the hope that it could still prove positive.

I've got to admit, I'm unlikely to ever buy a HK B-17 - it's simply too big (and too expensive for my current income), but a new nose-top - plus the reworked windscreen et al (maybe Gaston missed that?) as you outlined originally - would be a useful upgrade.

Coming back down to earth - or at least to 1:48... I do plan to tackle Bill Koster's early B-17 conversion next year (with Revell's B-17F as the willing (or not) patient for the surgery), so I'll drop you and Bill (Redhand) a line ahead of time as our resident B-17 experts in the hope of help along the way.

All the best

Rowan
KPHB17FE
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Illinois, United States
Joined: January 12, 2015
KitMaker: 216 posts
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Posted: Saturday, September 01, 2018 - 09:30 AM UTC
My apologies to you and others (but not to the one it was addressed to). I do on occasion let my temper get the best of me. I do not have the kit nor do I have any intention of purchasing one. There was a resin maker who expressed some interest in doing it IF there was any sort of response. Obviously it doesn't bother folks and that is fine. It is a model and in the end, if the builders are satisfied, it is good to go.
MichaelSatin
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
AEROSCALE
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Saturday, September 01, 2018 - 10:03 AM UTC
Karl,

No apology necessary for comments like that. We've all made them about (and to) him. It's sort of become an intermural sport around here.

I have the F kit and, while I know about the nose issue, I'm planning on living with it. I expect that any correction set would cost about as much as the original kit, which was already more than enough.

Michael
amoz02t
#192
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: November 25, 2009
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Posted: Saturday, September 01, 2018 - 11:13 AM UTC
I have the HK F kit as well, but in the stash trying to learn more. After only two and a half 1/72 scale B-17F kits completed of the one of interest (379th BG 42-5810 on July 29, 1943) I have much to learn. I assume the big one will end up as sub models rather than the full bird due to the size. Any insights are appreciated.
brekinapez
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Saturday, September 01, 2018 - 11:27 AM UTC
I have the G, and while it would have been nice it HKM hadn't dropped the ball in that area I am willing to live with it as it looks the part in my eyes, which are by no means expert. Plus, it is very unlikely anyone visiting who sees my kits will notice.

However, that shouldn't stop people from fulfilling a need where one exists, although in this case it seems not to be the case.

NO APOLOGIES NECESSARY!!
Redhand
#0
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 20, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, September 02, 2018 - 04:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If you are indicating I do not understand what is involved you are sadly mistaken. Yes, I simplified it a bit for the masses. I don't guess or use red lines on photographs, I have the engineering drawings and the background to use them.



I don't think that there is anybody in the world who knows more about the construction and configurations of the B-17 aircraft than Karl. PERIOD!
armouredcharmer
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 658 posts
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Posted: Saturday, October 27, 2018 - 08:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Karl,

No apology necessary for comments like that. We've all made them about (and to) him. It's sort of become an intermural sport around here.

I have the F kit and, while I know about the nose issue, I'm planning on living with it. I expect that any correction set would cost about as much as the original kit, which was already more than enough.

Michael




Got to run with that, if us modellers tore holes in every kit produced we`d never build anything!. To me, in my humble opinion, is if it is close enough it`ll do. As my tagline says "If you want it 100% accurate - Scratchbuild it!"
krow113
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: March 16, 2010
KitMaker: 460 posts
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Posted: Sunday, November 18, 2018 - 03:30 PM UTC
What is the dimension of the anomaly in the HK kit?
I mean the thickness of what would have to be removed to gain the flat area?
GastonMarty
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: April 19, 2008
KitMaker: 588 posts
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Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2018 - 05:51 PM UTC
Perhaps as little as two inches... Way more than that to fix... Look at the nose glass cross-section...

And the gear lenght/sit!!!!!....





G.