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World War II: USA
Aircraft of the United States in WWII.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
Yellow surround on WWII US bar insignia?
ZONER1
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New York, United States
Joined: May 08, 2003
KitMaker: 55 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 - 09:41 AM UTC
ESCI put out a decal sheet of WWII US aircraft insignia that shows a YELLOW surround on 1943-44 barred emblem. Was there ANY aircraft to which this was applied anywhere? The short lived red surround was quickly replaced by blue. A yellow surround was only applied to the 1942 variant during Operation Torch and some African theater Aircraft. Did they simply make an error, or can anyone shed light on this?

Redhand
#0
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 20, 2013
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Posted: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 - 04:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text

ESCI put out a decal sheet of WWII US aircraft insignia that shows a YELLOW surround on 1943-44 barred emblem. Was there ANY aircraft to which this was applied anywhere? The short lived red surround was quickly replaced by blue. A yellow surround was only applied to the 1942 variant during Operation Torch and some African theater Aircraft. Did they simply make an error, or can anyone shed light on this?



Matt, one should never say never in an area like this, but I've never heard or seen the likes of this before, ever. I believe it's a mistake, especially since the bars on the Nat. Insignia appear oversize. I would need to see color photographic proof in the form of a period colot slide with a detailed "provenance" and background description of the hows and whys this happened.

Otherwise, MISTAKE!
KPHB17FE
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Illinois, United States
Joined: January 12, 2015
KitMaker: 260 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 - 09:46 PM UTC
From all I can find, that is just wrong! That may have come about from some photos with the red surround showing up very light. But that is a result of the type of film. There were two types of black and white film used during WW II and on one type, red shows up very light.
BigfootV
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Colorado, United States
Joined: December 24, 2005
KitMaker: 1,624 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 - 10:03 PM UTC
Hello Matt,

This may help...or it may not.

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/stories/army_paint.html

http://militaryhistorynow.com/2014/05/28/flying-colours-a-vivid-history-of-warplane-insignia/

http://wwiisquadronpatches.com/NationalInsigniaHistoryUSAircraft.html

HTH

See ya in the funnies..........
BigfootV
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Colorado, United States
Joined: December 24, 2005
KitMaker: 1,624 posts
AeroScale: 385 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 - 10:19 PM UTC
Color photos.

http://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/col_photo_f6f_10.jpg

Odd one, Fw-190 in white with U.S. Markings.

http://www.vintagewings.ca/Portals/0/Vintage_Stories/News%20Stories%20G/Aviation's%20Cross%20Dressers/WTF238.jpg

Ooops, forgot this.......Navy markings.

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/naval-aviation-history/aircraft-markings.html

See ya in the funnies.........

Redhand
#0
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 20, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 - 12:52 PM UTC
Now here is a decidedly nonstandard application of white "bars" to a national insignia with a "North African" yellow border on the insignia blue circle with white star. Interestingly, there is no border at all to the white bars (like in the Pacific theater early on) but the yellow border remains on the blue circle!

I just stumbled across this photo, and it is unique so far as I know. I've never seen an aircraft with this national insignia variation before. Maybe it's the inspiration for the decal sheet that has the yellow surround going around the bars as well as the white star in blue circle.

Vicious
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
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Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 - 01:52 PM UTC
i dont know but in the last photo look like the white bar was added later,the star is less bright,for me the work was not finished,maybe an hour later the yellow had disappeared under a coat of blue or red,is not possible they just made a field change on a "operation Torch" star?....
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 - 11:50 PM UTC
The only time that a yellow surround was used that I can find any reference for, was Operation Torch.



I found this answer on a review of the Yellow Wings Operation Torch decal sheet by Rodger Kelly:

"The markings arose out of the complaints from pilots who found it difficult to distinguish the then standard white star on blue circle background U.S. national insignia from the national insignia worn by German, Italian and even British aircraft. With this in mind, an amendment to the Operation Memorandum No 9, dated 25 September 1942 was issued by the Allied Force Headquarters directing that all American aircraft participating in OPERATION TORCH, display a yellow band around the white star on blue circle background U.S. national insignia on each side of the fuselage and on both lower wings."

I hope that this helps to clear up the issue.


Joel