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Cold War (1950-1974)
Discuss the aircraft modeling subjects during the Cold War period.
Hosted by Tim Hatton
Italeri 1/32 Mirage IIIc
SteveAndrews
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 626 posts
AeroScale: 486 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 12:38 AM UTC
How many swear words can you say in twenty seconds? I can say a lot, especially when my jar of Tamiya Extra Thin goes cartwheeling across the desk as I reach for my phone. I can get in a lot more when a puddle of highly corrosive liquid cement spreads across the wing of the Mirage.

I also know its possible to go through a simple grief cycle a number of times. First denial: oh s**t, that canít just have happened! Then anger: which f*****g idiot is calling me, and who designed the jar?! Finally acceptance: bugger, bugger, bugger. It was my fault. I wonder if I can save it?

I have no idea if my instinctive reaction of running the part under cold water helped or made things worse. What I do know is that I now have a wing that is pitted and cratered like a little scale model of the lunar surface. Oh and that glue de-laminated my cutting mat too, just to add insult to injury.

Can I save it? Do I have the will to try? Shall I order a new part from Italeri and hope their customer services better than their moulding technology? Right now Iím not sure, so its all set aside while I weep softly into a consoling glass of red wine. Bugger.



Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 01:49 AM UTC
Steve,
Gotta fess up and tell the world that I've done that not once, but twice.

Just let the Extra Thin dry off, then cure for a few days. Then strip the wing, and start the paint process over again. As long as you don't go poking to test the plastic, it will dry out. Just don't put any pressure on it, or it will slowly warp.

Joel
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,251 posts
AeroScale: 1,814 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 02:22 AM UTC
Wow! Steve, that is a true disaster. I've never had that kind of spill with liquid cement though I have had other solvent related disasters.

I hope you are able to get a new wing. Or save that one.

Best wishes,

Gaz



SteveAndrews
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 626 posts
AeroScale: 486 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 08:37 PM UTC
Guys, thanks very much for the support. I have a horrible feeling that the glue has already eaten into the plastic, but it is put aside and I'll take a look tonight. It was pretty much a brand new bottle of cement. Joel I feel your pain!

Happy(ier) modelling guys.

Steve
SteveAndrews
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 626 posts
AeroScale: 486 posts
Posted: Monday, May 02, 2016 - 01:56 AM UTC
After a suitably long period of cooling off, Iíve finally returned to face the full horror of the gluey wing.

My first reaction was, hmmm this isn't as bad as I thought. So, equipped with a nice dollop of optimism I set about trying to sand out the effects of the glue. I used 600 grit Tamiya sanding sponge and to my surprise the first few passes have done a pretty good job of taking out the worst of the offending pock marks. With careful sanding it's been possible to preserve the essence of the detail and get out the worst of the problems. More sanding with the 600 sponge and finer grades is needed, but 15 minutes got me here, and thereís hope. Itís going to need rescribing and re-riveting, and maybe scratch building areas of the raised panelling. Even so to quote a popular TV series of the 1970ís ĎWe can rebuild himí.

This seemed appropriate in the circumstances:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF5X_NOlhrg





GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,251 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2016 - 03:20 PM UTC
Steve,
Glad to see you back at it!

Gaz
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2016 - 10:30 PM UTC
Steve,
So there is hope after all. Just more careful sanding, polishing, then scribing and riveting, and you're back to where you were. Gee, that sounds a awfully like how I'm progressing on the B-25B. Two step forward, and one step back. Sometimes it feels like the complete opposite.
Joel
SteveAndrews
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 626 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 - 02:35 AM UTC
Gaz and Joel

Thanks a million for keeping me company through the trials and tribulations. Its funny how this hobby can become a very serious endeavour, but at least it helps us feel alive!

I've been busy but the sanding will continue.

Have a great day.

S
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
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Posted: Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 11:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Gaz and Joel

Thanks a million for keeping me company through the trials and tribulations. Its funny how this hobby can become a very serious endeavour, but at least it helps us feel alive!

I've been busy but the sanding will continue.

Have a great day.

S



Steve,
Funny, but at times I'd bet that this hobby is killing me slowly but surely. Then there are days when it gives me a great deal of satisfaction, especially when I've over come some issue that has caused that current build to come to a grinding halt.
Joel
SteveAndrews
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 626 posts
AeroScale: 486 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 14, 2016 - 01:28 AM UTC
With the upper wing mostly sanded and re-riveted (try a wool needle), Iíve returned to the undercarriage. The struts are glued in place and the scratch built hoses are finished on the lower legs and wheels. Getting back to the kit after a period of too much work has been therapeutic, and next week it will be full steam ahead. For now a little dabbling has restored my motivation, and got me back in the mood for plastic.



GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,251 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 14, 2016 - 01:52 AM UTC
Steve,
All of your work on the landing gear assembly has really paid off. One would hardly recognize your first picture of the strut in this completed version.

Glad to see you back...it's been a while.

Gaz
Kilo_Uniform
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Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: July 03, 2015
KitMaker: 280 posts
AeroScale: 141 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 14, 2016 - 11:53 AM UTC
Hi Steve,

Welcome back! The landing gear looks amazing.

Using a wood needle to rivet? That sounds interesting - can [would] you explain your technique?

Looking forward to the next update.

Regards,
Kobus
SteveAndrews
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 626 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 14, 2016 - 08:01 PM UTC
Hi Kobus and Gaz

Thanks for the welcome back. Yup, a combination of too much work, and a need to re-motivate myself after I spilled all that glue kept me away. Now I'm feeling good about the Mirage again, and I'm free of a big work project that had all the leadership of hippy commune on a particularly sunny afternoon.

Kobus, what I used for re-riveting was a wool needle - see below. It has a shallow point that is ideal for making rivet sized depressions. Of course you have to do them one at a time so its better for repairs that a big riveting job, but it works a treat. All I do is simply push it into the place where the rivet is needed.

We're back in business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quyB8PMTD3o



Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Saturday, May 14, 2016 - 09:37 PM UTC
Steve,
That landing gear strut looks incredible. Never thought about a wool needle or anything like it. Will have to check them out on my next trip to Michaels.
Joel
SteveAndrews
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 626 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 15, 2016 - 03:01 PM UTC
Hi Joel

Thanks very much. It's been a journey!

Here's what the wool needle achieved:



I bought a pack of three and used the smallest one on the wing edge. This is the wing that met the glue and a lot of the original moulded rivets were reduced to muddy puddles and/or lost in the sanding. Luckily there was enough of an impression left for me to find the right places without marking it up. The needle needs a firm press in, so now I have it held in a pin vice.

Happy modelling.

Steve
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 10,350 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 15, 2016 - 06:31 PM UTC
Steve,
The simulated recessed rivets look great in 1/32. I'm hoping that they have a smaller set for 1/48 scale. The rounded tip is the key, and I doubt that I could achieve that by filing a sewing needle down.
Joel
SteveAndrews
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
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Posted: Wednesday, May 18, 2016 - 08:14 AM UTC
Hi Joel

Yes, I think you are right about the scale. The depressions made by the wool needle would look too big in 1/48. If you can find a smaller size it could do the job nicely.

Happy shopping.

Steve
SteveAndrews
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 626 posts
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Posted: Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 11:26 PM UTC
This aircraft is a fighter. I don't mean its a fighter aircraft, I mean the kit fights back at every stage. Its like it doesn't want to go together. With the finishing touches added to the landing gear I made a test fit of the wings and lower fuselage. Guess what? There are going to be big gaps to fill. The wing root is just a fraction bowed and will need sanding and filling to get rid of the gap you can see below. In addition the lower fuselage part is resisting meeting the upper part right beneath the cockpit. Now this might be a result of my earlier decision to mate the cockpit tub to the upper fuselage earlier than the instructions show. Whether its me or Italeri or both, thereís going to be some filling and re-scribing necessary there too. Oh yes, there are gaps at the rear as well.

I suggest buying shares in Milliput and Mr Surfacer now, as sales are about to rocket.





GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,251 posts
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Posted: Friday, May 20, 2016 - 02:51 AM UTC
Hi Steve,
What's life without a bit of putty? My preference would be that kits were designed so that panel lines and fine detail never coincide with seams. Esecially at the wing root. It's always a difficult place for me to finish satisfactorily.

A question: how do you get putty to scribe neatly? Despite recently spending many hours scribing, filling, and rescribing I am not quite happy with my results.

Best luck in your efforts!

Gaz
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 10,350 posts
AeroScale: 7,351 posts
Posted: Friday, May 20, 2016 - 06:15 PM UTC
Steve,
From your description, I was expecting miniature canyons, but the fit while not flush, is more then manageable, especially with your modeling skills . I would suggest sheet plastic to roughly fill the gaps as you can see right through at the wing joints. the result is that there is no real base for the putty to bond to.

Gary,
I've had years of frustration trying to re-scribe Squadron Green Stuff. It was just to brittle and to porus. Most of the time I managed to chip it. Sealing with CCA extra thin did help, but wasn't the final solution. I've found that Bondo #3 Glazing Putty & Sealer once dry, sanded, and polished, can be scribed without any issues.
Joel
SteveAndrews
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 626 posts
AeroScale: 486 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 03:04 AM UTC
Hi Guys

Gas it sounds like Joel has it nailed. My preferred method is to use good old fashioned sprue melted in Tamiya extra thin as a final layer over Milliput.

Joel, well its pretty grand like the canyon. Your suggestion of using some plastic card to start with sounds like a good one. I'm going to try sculpting the surfaces a little as well to try and make a better join so I can keep the filling to a minimum.

Up up and away!

S
SteveAndrews
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 626 posts
AeroScale: 486 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 03:09 AM UTC
With the prospect of some more serious filling and sanding ahead I decided to take a break and think ahead to the paint. My test bed is an Eduard F104G. Its a great kit and my first natural metal finish, so before I hit the Mirage with paint Iíve been experimenting on it.

This time I tried changing the colour of some panels. I followed the instructions and also used some artistic license based on photos I found. The relevant panels were masked with Tamiya tape and a combinations of Valejo acrylic and AK Extreme metal paint was used.

Removing the tape pulled a little of the base colour off, but then I did cut corners and go straight to paint without a primer, so its probably my fault. Despite that the overall effect looks good to me. The big lesson is that the AK Extreme Metal paints are quite translucent so you can blend them well into the base colour. Hereís the result.



Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 10,350 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 23, 2016 - 01:26 AM UTC
Steve.
Outstanding to say the least. You could sure fool me that the F104 was a test bed. Those variations in panels look great.
Joel
Kilo_Uniform
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Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: July 03, 2015
KitMaker: 280 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 23, 2016 - 09:32 PM UTC
Hi Steve,

Thank you for the tutorial on creating rivets with the wood needle - very informative and a [cost] effective way as well.

The variations in the NMF on the Starfighter is very eye-catching and certainly adds to the look.

Keep up the good work - looking forward to the next update.

Regards,
Kobus
SteveAndrews
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 626 posts
AeroScale: 486 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 05:38 PM UTC
Hi guys

Thanks for looking in. Its been a while I know - work and life are still conspiring to keep me from the bench, but this week will hopefully see more action.

Thanks also for your feedback on the NMF fun. That Starfighter is becoming a distraction! The new generation NMF paints do have a knack of making things look good. The key seems to be accurate masking and fine work with the old airbrush.

With best wishes

Steve