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Cold War (1950-1974)
Discuss the aircraft modeling subjects during the Cold War period.
Hosted by Tim Hatton
Italeri 1/32 Mirage IIIc
Joel_W
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Posted: Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 05:18 AM UTC
Steve,
Way back in the good old days (the 70s) I used 240 to start sanding with, but it caused more issues then it solved. Now I start with 320 or 400, then finish with 600, and it's off to the Micro Mesh pads from 4,000 to 12,000.

Joel
SteveAndrews
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Posted: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 05:48 PM UTC
Hi Joel

I should say that I only use the roughest grades to reduce the large raised seam left by my filler. Yes, I totally agree that once you get closer to the kit plastic you need finer grades or you have to deal with some difficult scratches.

By the way I intend to use Stynl Rez primer (as repackaged by UMP). I've read it has good micro-filler properties. Have you ever tried it?

The sanding continues, interrupted with life, work and well, you know, stuff.

I'll be going on holiday soon so there might be a longer break, but don't worry work will resume later.

Happy modelling.

Steve
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 - 12:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Joel

I should say that I only use the roughest grades to reduce the large raised seam left by my filler. Yes, I totally agree that once you get closer to the kit plastic you need finer grades or you have to deal with some difficult scratches.

By the way I intend to use Stynl Rez primer (as repackaged by UMP). I've read it has good micro-filler properties. Have you ever tried it?

The sanding continues, interrupted with life, work and well, you know, stuff.

I'll be going on holiday soon so there might be a longer break, but don't worry work will resume later.

Happy modelling.

Steve



Steve,
I haven't tried that brand of Primer. At one time I've tried Model Master Acrylic primer and tossed it in the garbage as it had more issues sticking to plastic then acrylic paint did.

These days I use Mig AMMO acrylic primer,& Tamiya Lacquer Gray and White Primers, as I find getting the Mig products difficult at times. But it's the best primer I've ever used.

Joel
SteveAndrews
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Posted: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 - 02:31 AM UTC
Hi guys

After two weeks of fun and sunshine its back to the bench. I have to say that the thought of returning to filling and sanding didn't fill me with joy. Thereís been more than one moment in the last day or so when I asked myself why I am continuing with this particular kit, and I've looked longingly at other kits in the stash. In stark contrast with the holiday fun, it has become a labour.

However, lurking in there somewhere is a lovely looking bird that will (please all the gods of modelling) provide a great base to paint. Thatís the bit I am looking forward to. So with about as much enthusiasm as a one legged man in a bum kicking contest, the filler and sanders have been reactivated. Here are a few shots of progress so far. They don't really convey the work its taking to sand and blend, but you are fellow modellers, so you know the pain and pleasure.

Thereís some re-filling at the front. I opted for home brew filler in the end because it is easy to sand and smooth. Iíve all gone back to Milliput in places where the gaps are wide or deep just because it bridges them better.

Oh and Joel, thanks for the advice on primers. Iím going to think on, but right now I have a feeling Iím going to need something with micro-filling properties like the Stynl Rez. Thats a step or two away now though.





In this image it looks like there's a step between the filler and kit plastic, but I can't feel anything. Once all the filling work is done I'll apply some paint to see if anything is amiss.

GazzaS
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Posted: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 - 01:30 PM UTC
Steve,
It's really staring to look good. You're very close to turning the corner, and firing up the airbrush.

As Arnold Schwarzeneggar said in some movie or other: "You can do it!!"

Best Wishes,


Gaz

Oh...welcome back!
SteveAndrews
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Posted: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 - 05:03 PM UTC
Hi Gaz

Thanks a million for the encouragement. Yes, I have to say as I glance cross at her now, there is potentially a lovely finished result to extract.

I'll keep on seeing on especially as I want somewhere to display the ejector seat which turned out well, even if it seems like an age ago that I was working on it.

Happy modelling.

S
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 04:27 AM UTC
Steve,
Welcome back to our world.

Believe me, I feel your pain and frustration all to well with facing a model that is fighting you every inch of the way. It's really hard to accept the fact that a few dollars worth of styrene can cause a human being so much grief at times, and so much joy at other times.

But after seeing the level you model at, and what you have achieved, I'd say that you'll over come any and all obstacles to get to the finish line.

As soon as I saw the close up picture of the intake, I thought there was a step as well. But pictures do lie, and the finger test says otherwise. a little primer will tell you for sure.

Joel
SteveAndrews
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Posted: Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 03:23 PM UTC
Hi Joel

Thanks for the welcome home.

Yup, its one of those things - so much hope, excitement and joy mixed with moments of intense frustration. Maybe its literally life in miniature?!

I've been working away, including more sanding on the filler that doesn't look flush, and I'll post some more images this week.

I am anticipating a nightmare one evening soon... I see myself as a very old man, holding the last sanding sponge on earth. I look around to find the Mirage, feeling that a life's work is almost done. Panic grips me - I can't see it anywhere. Then I gaze at my feet and see a huge pile of dust. I realize in horror that I have sanded it away entirely.

Happy modelling.

S




SteveAndrews
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Posted: Monday, July 25, 2016 - 12:56 AM UTC
Magic. It happens. Emerging from the gaps and misaligned parts is something that starts to look like a sleek fighterís fuselage.

Holes are disappearing, panel lines are reappearing. Its not perfect. There are lumps and bumps that don't feature on the real thing. They will be reduced by paint and filler but they wont go entirely. There are a few panel lines I have over scribed, and will be out of scale. Even so after a final sanding and polishing its all good enough. Its much better than it was, and by the time the paint and decals are on they eye won't focus on the imperfections it will focus on the lines and colour and details. Yes, ladies and gentleman its coming together.

Two layers of Milliput took care of the big gaps at the rear. A final coat of Mr Surfacer will do the last smoothing and blending.





I used plastic card to fill the gaps between the air intake bottom and sides because I wanted a smooth finish inside and out. A thin strip was cut, glued in place and then sanded and shaved to the right shape.



Detail around the air intakes lost to sanding has been repaired and will get a final enhancement once the glue I used to smooth out the edges has dried.



Oh la la, it might be time to return to some construction soon, and give up my job as a part-time plastic surgeon. Sheís had her parts enhanced enough. It is a kind of magic...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p_1QSUsbsM
GazzaS
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Posted: Monday, July 25, 2016 - 10:52 AM UTC
Steve,
Now she's starting to shine!

Gaz
SteveAndrews
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Posted: Monday, July 25, 2016 - 12:12 PM UTC
Hi Gaz

Yup I can feel a result beginning to come through, and I'm getting excited again.

Happy modelling.

S
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 - 03:24 AM UTC
Steve,
Well, that intake seam is gone for sure. I'd say you're making excellent progress on what we'll just call a most challenging kit.

Sooner then later you'll be ready for trading in your builder hat, to be replaced by your painters hat. Lookin forward to that day.

Joel
SteveAndrews
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Posted: Saturday, July 30, 2016 - 07:11 PM UTC
Hey Joel

I'm looking forward to that day, but madame Mirage has a few little things to throw at me yet...

As always thanks for looking in and raising a smile.

S
SteveAndrews
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Posted: Saturday, July 30, 2016 - 07:16 PM UTC
Isn't it ironic? Just as I thought the sanding, smoothing and blending were over I set about attaching the nose. Guess, what? I bet you canít. Oh, good guess! It doesn't bl**dy well match. The profile is different from the fuselage. Now this might be compounded by all the sanding I did before, but it seems other modellers have had the same problem. Sigh.

Maybe the Joker made this kit? It could be what gave him the manic smile and generally mentally-dislodged disposition. Having gathered myself and turned away from a sudden attraction to purple suits, I weighted the nose with a few (lose) screws and white glue, like thisÖ



Once that was dry I fitted the nose. I reckon it will be easier to sand it to the same profile as the fuselage with it in place. You can see the areas that don't match in the attached shots, and my attempts to size the problem with a little bit of marking up. The biggest problem is at the top where the nose stands proud and also has to be blended into the raised area at the forward edge of the cockpit. It might be easier to build this area up so it matches the nose cone profile. Hmmm, Iíll think about that.





As a distraction I fitted some of the underwing fairings - I think they have the control mechanisms for the flaps. Amazingly the inner ones fitted perfectly - absolutely flush to the wing surface. The outer ones (that also hold the air-to-air missiles) will need a little filler near the leading edge.



I hope your kits aren't giving you as many nasty surprises.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc

Happy modelling.

Steve
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 02:58 AM UTC
Steve,
Whomever designed the nose cone should be shot by the company's firing squad. My word, it's not even close. I keep on asking this every time I see such a poor fit: Don't they have a Quality Control dept. to test fit at least the major exterior parts. It's really scary in times like these where CAD programs can duplicate the real deal perfectly. How they manage to screw it up is beyond me.

Of course the worst area has to be on top right in front of the windscreen, so you can only blend from the seam down, the hardest way to get it to fit correctly.

Joel
GazzaS
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Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 02:11 PM UTC
Steve,
I thought errors like that were for the 1970's. Very disappointing! I don't think I'll be trusting to Italerei often.

Gaz
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 06:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Steve,
I thought errors like that were for the 1970's. Very disappointing! I don't think I'll be trusting to Italerei often.

Gaz



Gary,
That's why I have a list of manufactures that I'll never buy a kit from, and Italeri is on that list. The only way I'll buy a kit from them is if they bought the molds from another company such as Accurate Miniatures.

Life is just to short at my age, and there are just too many great model kits in my interest areas to buy a kit with major known issues.

Joel
Kilo_Uniform
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Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 08:09 PM UTC
Hi Steve,

Your endurance and perseverance with this kit is becoming the foundation for a legend. Personally I would have binned this kit a long time ago - but then maybe that explains a lot of things (including my long absence from the hobby due to frustrations with kits).

I also, wholeheartedly, agree with Joel - in this day and age a "new tool kit" should not be exhibiting any of these fit issues you are experiencing - as modelers we expect companies to 'get it right' when it comes to planes (and other vehicles) that have been around about as long as I have.

Having said all of that I do appreciate your build-log and the skill you exhibit in trying to turn this pig's ear into a purse.

I do believe that when you are finished with this model it will look outstanding.

Looking forward to the next update.

Regards,
Kobus
redcap
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Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 09:59 PM UTC
Great work (and perseverance!) Steve.

Probably a bit late now but I seem to recall reading somewhere that someone is doing a replacement nose for this kit - one that actually fits. Can't recall who it was sorry. At the best part of 70 quid, fit issues like this are inexcusable and effectively, Italeri are 'extracting the urine' with the modeller!

I have this kit and really liked it in the box but having seen the work you are having to put in (and being spoiled by a click-fit WNW Roland CII kit at the moment) I really think mine is going to get offloaded after seeing your build. I really don't have your enthusiasm and determination to make something from this kit with all the work that's involved; especially so as I wanted to do an NMF IDF machine and NMF is hard enough on a Tamiya fit and details kit; much less this one.

Fabulous iconic a/c and for me in the right scale ....but why did it have to be Italeri who tackled it?

Italeri really need to up their game or I doubt they will be around much longer because it isn't a cheap brand name in the hobby either. When you look at the latest Tamiya and WNW stuff (and more or less the same price)then Italeri are not even in the same league, much less in competition.

Great work Steve and your build is a testament to your skills rather than the kit itself.

Gary
SteveAndrews
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Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 11:09 PM UTC
Hi Joel. Gaz, Kobus and Gary

Yes, yes and more yes. Italeri is going right to the top of my never-in-a-million-years-will-I-buy-again. list This kit really is testing my patience and skills. I think I can safely say its actually the worst kit I've made since I was buying really terrible stuff back in the 1970s. Believe me there have been moments when I've yearned to be working on a Tamiya kit or something similar.

On the other hand, all those SEOs (Skill Enhancement Opportunities) are doing their job. By the time I finish, my sanding, filling, scribing and re-riveting will have improved no end, and any aircraft kit will seem like a dream.

In the meantime I'm pausing while I wait for some new sanding sponges to arrive, although I might be tempted to take a look at the front landing gear.

Finally I have to say thanks a million for dropping in, and for all the news, suggestions and encouragement. I think if it wasn't for you guys and the blog I might just have binned the whole project by now. I must have a real stubborn streak in there somewhere.

Have a great week and happy modelling.

Steve
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 11:31 PM UTC
Steve,
Same to you.

I'm so use to 2 steps forward, then one or even two steps backwards, that it seems more like the norm then anything else. My own SEOs are a constant challenge one way or the other.

At the rate I'm going, I just might have enough done for another update. wonders will never cease to amaze me.

Joel
Peterpools
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 07:44 PM UTC
Hi Steve
Finally read through and caught up on your latest progress, efforts, trials and tribulations with the Mirage. As I read though each update, I felt both your pain and exhilaration as problems were encountered and solutions discovered; a solid foundation of awesome building skills and an open eye to various solutions has surely paid off in huge dividends. While I did start my IAF Mirage quite a few months ago, the project is on hold for the near future as I knee deep in my Mossie build for contest my brother and I are planning on attending this spring.
Will be following with great interest and I have been taking lots of notes as well. When I started my Mirage and decided on and Israeli Air Force Mirage, detailed interior photographs were nearly impossible to find. For my IP, I used a custom resin cast and it looked pretty good. The tub lower sidewalls have not yet been painted or weathered and the Eduard PE can still be seen.
Hope this is OK but just two images of my front office





Looking forward to to your build and solutions and surely will be leaning on them when time allows for my Mirage to be on the bench again next year.
Keep 'em coming
Peter

SteveAndrews
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 08:09 PM UTC
Hi Peter

Thanks very much for looking in and posting the photos of your work on the cockpit. It looks great. I'm envious of the neat lines you got on the ejector seat pull. How did you do that?

Happy to have you along, and yes this one will test us!

Warm wishes

Steve
SteveAndrews
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 08:11 PM UTC
Hi Joel

Yup, I think when I'm done with this one I'll cast my eye on something with a rock solid reputation! Tamiya Spitfires come to mind.

Stay strong!

Steve

Peterpools
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 08:59 PM UTC
Hi Steve
On 32nd scale aircraft, I actually use very thinly sliced tape or even a decal strip but For the Mirage, I used tape.
If your thinking of one of Tamiya Spits - awesome kit. I built both the MK XIe and the MkVIII - can't recommend them them highly enough. I posted a few photos of the MkXIe on the WWII forum a few days ago. I still have a few un-built Spits in the stash along with a few more Mustangs - just can't have enough of each
Keep 'em coming
Peter