login   |    register
Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Kevin Brant
New Fokker DVII
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 02:26 AM UTC
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 02:28 AM UTC
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 02:30 AM UTC
Merlin
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#017
_VISITCOMMUNITY
United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,437 posts
AeroScale: 12,688 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 03:52 AM UTC
Hi Steven

Another beauty!

Looking forward to the lozenge item - it'll be a HUGE help making sense of everything!

All the best

Rowan
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:27 AM UTC


JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:18 AM UTC
These are the typical layouts for german 'lozenge camouflage.' Where lozenge is used it was applied to the airframe in pattern layouts.
1. Chordwise pattern layout was typical for single seat fighters except for Siemens Schuckert Works.
2. Angled pattern layout were continous in one direction across The wing surface and did not meet in the middle at opposing directions. It was used on broad wing aircraft typically on two seaters.
3. Span wise was usually a field depot application.

These decals usually come in long strips just like they came from the factory textile mills in large rolls. The long sides are known as factory edges. The strips are cut in sections that match either the chord or angle of the pattern layout you choose to work with. They are laid factory edge to factory edge. These strips are often turned so the patterns run opposite to the one it is next to. There are upper (dark) and under surface (light pastels) lozenge patterns for both the 4 & 5 colour types.

4 colour lozenge is a Fokker works (Schwerin) patent. First applied on Fokker works airframes in early 1918.
Since Fokker was a businessman due to shortages he did sell bolts of 4 colour to the other factories that were producing license built Fokker D.VII types. Note the chordwise pattern layout on the 1/48 Roden Fokker D.VII images I have posted here. I used the Eagle Strike lozenge as I believe it is the best representation. I gues I better as They put my name on it as one of the they consulted in its manufacture.

5 colour was used by various (most ) German aircraft manufacturers as early as Oct- Nov. 1917 all the way through to Dec.1918.

You will note that finer strips (rib tapes) of the 4 colour lozenge fabric are laid out over the rib caps. These are typical of all WWI aircraft. The rib tapes served as reinforcements to the fabric attachment to the ribcaps abd were sewn in place. These strips are continous around the rib profile and I believe the sources I will provide here serve as the some of the best references on the matter.

‘Albatros D.Va German Fighter of World War I by R. Mikesh, Smithsonian Inst. Press, Pp. 48-53, 1980.(great engine details.)
‘Combat Colours #14 The Fokker D.VII’ by P. Cooksley, Airfix Magazine. Date unknown.
‘Details & Colours’ Windsock Intl. Vol.3 #3 Summer 1987.
‘Fliegertruppen #2' by A.Ferko, Privately Published, Salem Ohio, 1987. (photocopies may be obtained by contacting the University of Texas at Dallas through the special aviation collection.)
‘Flight Report’ Cross & Cockade Great Britain, Vol. 2 # 4.
‘Fokker D.VII pt. I DML - Grooming a Thoroughbred' Model Aircraft Monthly Jan. 2003.
‘Fokker D.VII pt. II Jager, A Horse of a Different Colour’ Model Aircraft Monthly Nov. 2003.
‘Fokker D.VII’ by Egon Kreuger, Profile Pub. Ltd. 1962.
‘Fokker D.VII’ by P. Grosz, Albatros Pub. Ltd, Datafile #9. 1989, 1993, & 1994.
‘Fokker D. VII Aces of WWI, pt. I’ by Franks & Van Wyngarden. Osprey pub. 2003.
‘Fokker D. VII Aces of WWI, pt. II’ by Franks & Van Wyngarden. Osprey pub. 2004.
‘Fokker D.VII Anthology 1' by R.Rimell, Albatros Pub. Ltd. 1997.
‘Fokker D.VII Anthology 2' by R.Rimell, Albatros Pub. Ltd. 2000.
‘Fokker D.VII Anthology 3' by R.Rimell, Albatros Pub. Ltd. 2002.
‘Fokker D.VII Kit Survey’ by R.Rimell, Albatros Ltd. Windsock Vol 13, #4 1997.
‘Fokker D.VII Covering Practices’ by Dan-San Abbott, WWI Aero #102, Pp.22-33. 1984.
‘Fokker D.VII Detail Marking and Finish of Fokker-built D.VII Aircraft’ by Dan San Abbott, WWI Aero #107, 1985.
‘Fokker Fighters of WWI’ by A. Imrie, Osprey, Vintage Warbirds #6 Pp.41-64 1986..
‘Fokker’s Last Deadly Scourge’ by M. O’Leary, Air Combat, Pp. 18-26. 1975.
‘Forgotten Fokker’ by P Cooksley, Cross & Cockade GB Vol.4, #2,Pp.84-86. 1973.
‘That Fokker’s an Albatros!’ By Wally Tripp, WWI Aero, #102 , Pp.14-21. 1984.
‘Udet’s Fokker D.VII Fighters’ by Dan-San Abbott, Windsock Vol.4, Spring 1989.
‘German Army Air Service in WWI’ by R.Rimell, Osprey, Vintage Warbirds #2, Photos 42-44, 1985.
‘Germany’s Last Knight’ of the Air by C. Degelow, William Kimber Pub. London, 1979.
‘Wings of War’ by R. Stark, Arms & Armour Press. 1973.
Merlin
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#017
_VISITCOMMUNITY
United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,437 posts
AeroScale: 12,688 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 02:56 PM UTC
Hi Stephen

That's excellent! Your explanation of when to apply the lozenge chordwise, spanwise or at an angle cuts through a lot of confusion.

When areas were painted in lozenge patterns, do you know if the paints roughly matched the colours of the fabric?

Cheers

Rowan
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 04:50 PM UTC
Merlin; The nose panels that roughly duplicate the camouflage pattern are from OAW. (East Albatros Works.) Predominatly this appeared in the mid production series for OAW and the colours constisted of dk or medium green as a base with Mauve lozenges painted over the green field. The pattern was pretty standard.

These are late model Fokker D.VII (OAW) types in storage at Romoratin after the war.

Also with rib tapes known or believed colours are;
Schwerin used lozenge coloured.
OAW used lt. blue and lozenge.
Albatros Johannistahl used pink or lozenge.
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 05:08 PM UTC
Here is my version of a late model Fokker D.VII (OAW) D.6578/18. With a clean exterior she is being put together at an Air Park and will stand inline awaiting assignment.

It is covered in the "old' Aeroscale lozenge (Not as accurate as the Eagle Strike sets.) Done in the early 1996. With the green and mauve cowling panels, all white vertical stabilizer, locations of the crosses and the lt. blue rib tapes you can deduce that it was made to look like a factory fresh OAW built machine. Note the seam locations.



Now take a moment and get up from your monitor and stand back say 12 feet from your computer. Think about the overall impression you get when you look at the model. Details become indistinct.

JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 03:08 AM UTC
Sachsenberg's Fokker D.VII (early Schwerin) 376/18 -526/18. Eagle Strike four Colour with four colour rib tapes. Roden kit with Aeromaster decals. Figure Rosemont / Atlee.
Tony_Frey
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Missouri, United States
Joined: May 03, 2003
KitMaker: 272 posts
AeroScale: 41 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 07:18 AM UTC
Stephen, love the planes, they all look great! To kind of change the scope of the discussion, what is the source of the realistic looking props: aftermarket wood, expertly painted kit, homemade or ???
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 04:25 PM UTC
Greetings;
No worries about the scope. I often cut my own props from woods that I laminate together. Here Martin Digmayer and I differ. The Fokker D.VII D.6578/18 has one of my scratchbuilt efforts. The Sachsenberg D.VII (black & yellow diamonds) has one of Martin Digmayer's beauties. The Purple Ace Fokker D.VII is a painted kit prop.
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 04:35 PM UTC
Here is the of my first DML Dragon kits slightly modified (I should have added about .040 thou to the fuselage underside. It needs more depth from cockpit to tail.) The prop here is carved from laminated woods.


JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 04:42 PM UTC
Here is an Early type Fokker from Jasta 15. The incident was the 23 victory for the American, Capt. Eddie Rickenbacker. The victim was acting sergeant Klaudat. A lttle thing I call "Gotcha!!"



JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 04:50 PM UTC
Here was my first Roden Fokker D.VII (late Schwerin) kit #417. I modified it to a late OAW version in Ukrainian markings. The profile from the 1st Air Regiment based at Kamenets-Polodsky in June 1919. Info taken from photo. Figures are from the Eduard set. Fuel drum is a resin item.

JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 04:54 PM UTC
Here is the opposite side;
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Friday, August 27, 2004 - 02:26 AM UTC
Here's the old bird from the RAF museum note the nose panels.

Image from the WWI modeler page.
Merlin
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#017
_VISITCOMMUNITY
United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,437 posts
AeroScale: 12,688 posts
Posted: Friday, August 27, 2004 - 05:33 AM UTC
Hi there

I couldn't resist scanning some lozenge decals from different manufacturers for comparison... the variation is amazing! I did detailed scans, but I've scaled them down for these composites. The full-sized scans are in my gallery:Lozenge Decals.

Upper colours - from left to right, the decals are:
Pegasus 5 colour PEGD4803, Roden Fokker D.VII #415/417, Techmod 48039D, Special Hobby Pfalz D.XII SH 48024/26.



Lower colours - from left to right, the decals are:
Pegasus 5 colour PEGD4804, Roden Fokker D.VII #415/417, Techmod 48039D.



Of course, scanning decals can't take translucency into account. Of my samples, the Roden shows the poorest registration, the Techmod easily the best. As for colour accuracy, I'll leave that to Steven! . . .

All the best

Rowan
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Friday, August 27, 2004 - 04:39 PM UTC
Eagle Strike is what I buy. Yes, they make me buy them too. NOTE! Aeromaster was purchased by Squadron. Aeromaster & Eagle strike are Out of Business. 2007
Merlin
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#017
_VISITCOMMUNITY
United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,437 posts
AeroScale: 12,688 posts
Posted: Friday, August 27, 2004 - 06:30 PM UTC
Cheers Stephen

I'll try to track down some Eagle Strike to add to the comparisons.

All the best

Rowan
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 02:31 AM UTC
Thanks Merlin My scanner is offline right now. So here is a little info about what types and when the Fokker D.VII (Schwerin) series had various lozenge applications. I credit this to the sage Dan San Abbott .
'...The early Fokker built fok. D.VII were covered with with 4 color printed fabric; Serial numbers D.230/18 to D.374/17 wings 4 color fabric, fuselage and tailplane streaked deep green to light green. under surfaces turquoise.
D.375/18 to D.526/18 were covered with 4 color fabric.(D.402/18 was covered in 5 color, Jasta 16b, Uffz.Holtzem. See the note below.)
D.4250/18 to D.4449/18 were covered with 4 color fabric.
D.5050/18 to D.5149/18 were covered with 4 color fabric.
D.7604/18 to D.7805/18 were covered with both the 4 color and 5 color fabrics, which occurred between D.7772/18 and D.7788/18.
D. 10300/18 to 10399/18 were covered with 5 color fabric.
Throughout the production, Fokker Flugzeugwerke used 4 color fabric on the Fok. D.VI, Fok.D.VII and the Fok. E.V (D.VIII). In a few instances, some early production Fok. D.VII machines were covered with 5 color fabric, i.e. Fok. D.VII D.402/18, but, 4 color fabric was the standard...'
Merlin
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#017
_VISITCOMMUNITY
United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,437 posts
AeroScale: 12,688 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 03:27 AM UTC
Hi Stephen

The Serial No.s are a big help; I'd got the Roden Fokker-built early kit #415 back down off the shelf to do the scans and I notice that the serial for Hermann Goering's a/c is 278/18 - so I guess it should be 4-colour lozenge (not 5-colour as supplied).

Talking of the scans - if they are of any use to you to illustrate your posts or articles, please help yourself.

All the best

Rowan
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 12:54 AM UTC
Check out the new Roden releases. Just for a bit of help Oblt. Udet's "Du doch Nicht!!" was an early Schwerin Fokker D.VII not an OAW type. There is a bit of a controversy over this profile.
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 11:44 AM UTC
Here are a few more serials to fill in the gaps. for the BMW variants.
BMW IIIa
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,670 posts
AeroScale: 11,012 posts
Posted: Monday, December 27, 2004 - 11:24 PM UTC
Recently a good friend of mine posted these at the Aerodrome and since I have had a couple of inquiries on series for the types I thought to post them here.
All Fok.D.VII serial numbers by parent and licence batch are:
Fok.VII 227-229/18 prototypes, V.11 and two V.18 brought up to Fok.D.VII production standards.
Fok.D.VII 230 to 526/18.
Fok.D.VII(Alb) 527 to 926/18. (Alb.) Albatros built.
Fok.D.VII(OAW) 2000 to 2199/18. Ost Albatros Werke Built.
Fok.D.VII(OAW) 4000 to 4199/18.
Fok.D.VII 4250 to 4449/18. Some D.VIIF with BMW IIIa engines.
Fok.D.VII(OAW)4450 to 4649/18.
Fok.D.VII 5050 to 5149/18. Some D.VIIF machines.
Fok.D.VII(Alb) 5200 to 5599/18.
Fok.D.VII(OAW) 6300 to 6649/18.
Fok.D.VII(Alb) 6650 to 6899/18.
Fok.D.VII 7604 to 7805/18. some Fok.D.VIIF machines.
Fok.D.VII(OAW) 8300 to 8649/18. Delivered after the war
Fok.D.VII(Alb) 10050 to 10100/18. ?
Fok.D.VII10347 to 10300/18. 37 made, delivered after 11/11/18.


Just for the sake of having them in one place. For more reading on the various license built Fokker D.VII represented in 1:48 kit form.
Click here I Eduard Royal Feature
Click here II Eduard OAW Feature
Click here III Eduard Schwerin Dual Combo review
Click here IV Roden Schwerin kit #415 Feature
Click here V Eduard Schwerin Weekend kit blog
Click here VI Eduard 2nd OAW issue Review
Click here VII Eduard MAG Dual Combo Review
Click here VIII Eduard Johannistahl Review
Click here IX DML / Dragon Kit Review
Click here X Hasegawa Kit Review
Click here XI Jager Kit Review
Click here XII Roden Early Schwerin kit Review
Click here XIII Eduard OAW 1st Issue Review
Click here XIV Eduard mid OAW Limited Edition

I think that is all available Reviews & Features at this time. More later no doubt!