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Shipping Cost Complaint
retiredyank
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
AeroScale: 79 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 10:22 PM UTC
Perhaps I am wrong, but don't the buyers on this site pay for shipping? I ask this, because I have seen several selling posts that don't want to ship out of country. They claim this is, because of high shipping costs. What do you care? You aren't paying to have it shipped. Please feel free to correct me, on this,
FAUST
#130
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: June 07, 2002
KitMaker: 8,797 posts
AeroScale: 190 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 12:15 AM UTC
Ola Matt
That personally puzzled me as well. I never had anybody that paid the shipping for me. It happened to me once or twice because I bought a lot in one go but usually the shipping is on the account of the buyer.
That said. I totally stopped buying stuff in the US. The shipping costs from US postal are bordering the ridiculous. Often exceeding the buying price by huge margins. Even with the quite good exchange rate between the Dollar and the Euro it is cheaper for me to get my stuff here on the European continent or Asia.
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,461 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 01:04 AM UTC
I'm not aware of any hard and fast rules on it. Most folks say "shipping is extra" so you can make whatever arrangements are necessary, but I just bought from a guy who had a "complete" price for his items that included shipping in-country. It is entirely up to the vendor in the end.

As for not shipping across borders, I've run across it a lot on ebay and other places. It's often more to do with the hassle of customs forms and the risk of coverage for lost/damaged goods that have left the originating country, since all bets are off once a box crosses the line.
pseudorealityx
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Georgia, United States
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,174 posts
AeroScale: 11 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 02:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text


As for not shipping across borders, I've run across it a lot on ebay and other places. It's often more to do with the hassle of customs forms and the risk of coverage for lost/damaged goods that have left the originating country, since all bets are off once a box crosses the line.




This. I've shipped stuff overseas without problems, but also had stuff shipped overseas that was damaged in transit, and nothing I can do on my side. Plus there's the additional forms to fill out, and at least to me, it's harder to calculate shipping prices.
staff_Jim
Staff MemberPublisher
KITMAKER NETWORK
#002
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Hampshire, United States
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,446 posts
AeroScale: 506 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 03:50 AM UTC
The shipping costs here in the US have gotten crazy. Doubling in some cases since 2010 or so. I don't like to speak negatively against my own countrymen, but we seem to have seriously lost the meaning of the term *value*. When buying fast food at McDonald's can now run upwards of $25 for four people, sorry that is not a value, nor does it make any sense to me in the least. Yet McDonald's still has huge lines of people waiting to merrily hand over their hard earned cash. All because they looked at Starbucks and said... well hey if people are going to pay $4 for a coffee than we can charge $6-8 for a meal.

Not sure where this trend in our society is going. Anybody looked at the cost of a box of cereal lately??

Cheers,
Jim
staff_Jim
Staff MemberPublisher
KITMAKER NETWORK
#002
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Hampshire, United States
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,446 posts
AeroScale: 506 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 03:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


As for not shipping across borders, I've run across it a lot on ebay and other places. It's often more to do with the hassle of customs forms and the risk of coverage for lost/damaged goods that have left the originating country, since all bets are off once a box crosses the line.




This. I've shipped stuff overseas without problems, but also had stuff shipped overseas that was damaged in transit, and nothing I can do on my side. Plus there's the additional forms to fill out, and at least to me, it's harder to calculate shipping prices.



I will at least congratulate both the US Postal Service and their counterparts in whatever countries I have shipped to in the past 10 years. I have yet to really have any issues and this is after hundreds of shipments. Knock on wood...

Jim
pseudorealityx
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Georgia, United States
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,174 posts
AeroScale: 11 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 03:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Not sure where this trend in our society is going. Anybody looked at the cost of a box of cereal lately??

Cheers,
Jim




$3.59/box for my organic granola cereal. Stocked up last night.
retiredyank
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
AeroScale: 79 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 04:48 AM UTC
I am noticing a trend. And, not meaning any offense. But, people in England are refusing to ship out of country more and more. If it's a good price or I can't find the kit anywhere else, I will gladly pay the shipping cost. As a buyer, I expect to pay for shipping no matter where it's from or the cost.
CMOT
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
ARMORAMA
#406
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,689 posts
AeroScale: 270 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 05:29 AM UTC
It is actually cheaper to post from the UK to the US than the other way around, however I believe the concern is if it goes missing the buyer is going the smear your name anywhere they can.
retiredyank
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
AeroScale: 79 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 05:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It is actually cheaper to post from the UK to the US than the other way around, however I believe the concern is if it goes missing the buyer is going the smear your name anywhere they can.



That's just ridiculous. If you don't want to take the chance of losing it, pay for tracking and/or insurance. I have order from http://www.hannants.co.uk and http://www.whiteensignmodels.com with no problems. Shipping was reasonable and, I believe, Hannants included tracking. This, in and of itself speaks poorly of the person wishing to sell something. It also shows, that they don't trust any potential customers outside of their country. This is the reason for the "good buyer/seller" list;on which I have been posted several times.
pseudorealityx
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Georgia, United States
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,174 posts
AeroScale: 11 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 05:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

It is actually cheaper to post from the UK to the US than the other way around, however I believe the concern is if it goes missing the buyer is going the smear your name anywhere they can.



That's just ridiculous. If you don't want to take the chance of losing it, pay for tracking and/or insurance. I have order from http://www.hannants.co.uk and http://www.whiteensignmodels.com with no problems. Shipping was reasonable and, I believe, Hannants included tracking. This, in and of itself speaks poorly of the person wishing to sell something. It also shows, that they don't trust any potential customers outside of their country. This is the reason for the "good buyer/seller" list;on which I have been posted several times.



It has nothing to do with England, and everything to do with convenience.

Trying to make a claim on packages shipped internationally is a royal pain in the butt. Tracking and Insurance doesn't fix that.
staff_Jim
Staff MemberPublisher
KITMAKER NETWORK
#002
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Hampshire, United States
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,446 posts
AeroScale: 506 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 06:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text


It has nothing to do with England, and everything to do with convenience.

Trying to make a claim on packages shipped internationally is a royal pain in the butt. Tracking and Insurance doesn't fix that.



I am not sure what the customs paperwork in the UK is like, but believe me, until I switched to using Stamps.com's system for international shipping and was able to do them electronically, I *hated* filling out those damn things by hand. If I had 7 or more of them by hand felt like it was going to fall off by the end of it. Thank goodness for keyboards!

Jim
pseudorealityx
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Georgia, United States
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,174 posts
AeroScale: 11 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 07:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


It has nothing to do with England, and everything to do with convenience.

Trying to make a claim on packages shipped internationally is a royal pain in the butt. Tracking and Insurance doesn't fix that.



I am not sure what the customs paperwork in the UK is like, but believe me, until I switched to using Stamps.com's system for international shipping and was able to do them electronically, I *hated* filling out those damn things by hand. If I had 7 or more of them by hand felt like it was going to fall off by the end of it. Thank goodness for keyboards!

Jim



I can see that. Fortunately, I've only sold a few things overseas, but you better believe there's a premium associated with it above and beyond the increased cost. It's just a hassle.
CMOT
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
ARMORAMA
#406
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,689 posts
AeroScale: 270 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 07:24 AM UTC
Customs paperwork leaving the UK consists of;
What is it your sending.
Is it a gift, sample, and so on
Value
Sign and date.

Items going to Canada require name and postal address of the sender.
FAUST
#130
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: June 07, 2002
KitMaker: 8,797 posts
AeroScale: 190 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 07:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Customs paperwork leaving the UK consists of;
What is it your sending.
Is it a gift, sample, and so on
Value
Sign and date.

Items going to Canada require name and postal address of the sender.



Same here in the Netherlands and the process takes as long as the woman behind the counter needs to fill in those details. And then it is off to it's destination... How much different can this process be in the US? I kinda believe that this is the same system used all over the world. Pretty much most of the packages that I order that have to come from overseas come with exactly the same green customs patches on them as what gets filled in here when I send out stuff.

Also what I never understood is how come that there never seems to be a standard postage rate? I bought 4 pyro kits from 4 different US based sellers and each came with a different postage price despite every box being equal in size and weight. That simply doesn't make any sense at all. Unless the sellers tried to rob me of a couple of extra bukcs.
staff_Jim
Staff MemberPublisher
KITMAKER NETWORK
#002
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Hampshire, United States
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,446 posts
AeroScale: 506 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 07:49 AM UTC
There does seem to be a rate pricing groups here. I just sent two packages of close, but different weights. One to Bulgaria and one to Denmark. Both were $25.07.

Jim
retiredyank
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
AeroScale: 79 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 08:48 AM UTC
I deal with overseas orders, frequently. Two packages, at $20, means $10 shipping cost per package. Even shipping within the US is nearly that. I have a stack of customs forms, beside my computer. Never shrank from a little form, before. If I sell an item, any item, to a buyer, any buyer, and it fails to be delivered, I do the right thing. Hey, I'm out a kit. This doesn't take food out of my daughter's mouth. I sleep peaceably. If I am expecting something from overseas(excepting reputable sites), and don't receive it I understand. My loss, but I would like the cost of the item minus shipping returned. It's just my play money. Never missed a bill, due to this hobby.
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,461 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 09:36 AM UTC
In a horribly un-scientific poll of sellers in our own Buy/Sell/Trade forum, I found one UK-only, one EU-only, and one US-only in the first page of listings. That's a small percentage, but I cannot blame them if they aren't willing to play the international postage game. I can see that it might be frustrating if one of these guys has a rare kit at a great price that I really want, but won't ship to me, but then that's just life. There are plenty of professional vendors who don't ship overseas, and even some that just have no easy way to order from!

I've been lucky regarding international dealings, but I am mindful that if something goes walkies I can be out the full price because insurance generally ends when a package leaves the country. Then there are issues regarding import duty etc that can crop up at any time (even if mostly we "get away with it") - I learned it the hard way when a bargain HO-scale loco from the US to the UK nearly doubled in price on the doorstep as the Postie demanded the Import Duty! Of course, I like to receive stuff regardless of where it comes from, but I understand the reluctance of some to do it.
retiredyank
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
AeroScale: 79 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 10:39 AM UTC
I'm not talking about rare kits. Just kits that are low enough to still be a deal. I completely understand, if it's a rare item.
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,416 posts
AeroScale: 3,063 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 05:12 PM UTC
FWIW, an acquaintance has a mail order business here in the USA. He has quit selling to Europe and Canada as, he told me, that if something disappears, there is no way to track it even if tracking service was paid for. What USPS will do, the other country may not care about. I sold an item to a neighbor to the north and the package disappeared. USPS said all they could account for was where and when it was in their care. The buyer said the Canadian PO said they had no info and it must have gotten lost in the states. Fortunately, the package eventually arrived.

I don't know if that helps. I agree with Jim that most of my international shipping has been smooth.
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,461 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 10:08 PM UTC
That's where courriers like UPS etc come into their element - they are essentially international, so can offer to track a package door to door (for a price). National postal services are by definition limited by national borders!
pseudorealityx
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Georgia, United States
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,174 posts
AeroScale: 11 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 11:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

That's where courriers like UPS etc come into their element - they are essentially international, so can offer to track a package door to door (for a price). National postal services are by definition limited by national borders!



As an example...

I just entered in the information for a kit into the UPS calculator and the USPS calculator. I'm using the Hobbyboss M1070 kit, which is a larger box and is relatively heavy. I'm using this example because I know the exact box size and weight. This is a shipment from here to an address in Israel that I've shipped a model to previously.

USPS: $53
UPS: $214


I don't see UPS as a viable solution... tracking or no tracking.