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Natural Metal Finish adn Decals
ppawlak1
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Victoria, Australia
Joined: March 14, 2006
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Posted: Friday, September 17, 2010 - 05:17 PM UTC
Hi Guys !

I'm new to 1/48 Aircraft, and now have a few "Bubble Top" P-47D's in the Stash. I've done some surfing on the paint process I need to use (prefered to the application of foil), but I still have some questions.

I'll start on these models soon, and intend doing the polished metallic finish in Alclad ALC-119 (Aluminium Airframe), after a coat of ALC-305 (Alclad Gloss Black Base).

So far I think I'm on the right track. Any advice on the above ?

Now, having got the Aluminium finish (with the process above), do I need to polish the model for a better sheen, and do I need to do something special to prevent decal silvering (and a quality outcome with the kit markings) during their application ?

Better still, am I better off going for AM decals instead of those in the Tamiya 1/48 scale kit (No. 90), and those in Hasegawa's JT40 (P-40D-25 Thunderbolt) to get the best finish with markings ?

Cheers and thanks for any advice in advance,

Paul



mtnflyer
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Friday, September 17, 2010 - 07:30 PM UTC
Paul.
Recently I read posts on the Aerodrome site, wherein, modelers were having serious issues with the Alcad Black Base product. The general consensus was they were throwing it in the trash bin, and switching to Tamiya gloss black.

Alcad is a lacquer, and your work must be protected with a high quality primer before applying the lacquer. Otherwise you'll risk damageing the plastic.

I've never read of anyone polishing it, but, they certainly use different shades for effect. Duraluminum with white aluminum, for example.

Somewhere, in FineScaleModeler, there's an extensive article on its application. I'll see if I can't find it and get back to you.

Hope this makes sense. Guy
ppawlak1
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Friday, September 17, 2010 - 07:44 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Paul.
Recently I read posts on the Aerodrome site, wherein, modelers were having serious issues with the Alcad Black Base product. The general consensus was they were throwing it in the trash bin, and switching to Tamiya gloss black.

Alcad is a lacquer, and your work must be protected with a high quality primer before applying the lacquer. Otherwise you'll risk damageing the plastic.

I've never read of anyone polishing it, but, they certainly use different shades for effect. Duraluminum with white aluminum, for example.

Somewhere, in FineScaleModeler, there's an extensive article on its application. I'll see if I can't find it and get back to you.

Hope this makes sense. Guy



Thanks Guy !

Tamiya Black gloss it is then

I've checked the Alcad II site it has some good info also:

I love this link :

Alclad II Finishes

The decal application is something that interests me in particular, especially any silvering / decal edge issues on the Alcad finish.

I have the following Alcad finishes coming my way now :

ALC-105 Polished Aluminium
ALC-107 Chrome for Plastic
ALC-119 Airframe Aluminium

I may also try a regular finish on some panels to 'mix it up' as you suggest.

The first project however will be straight ALC-119 I think with the appropriate washes for the panel joins etc.

This first one will be more of a practice run I think

BTW: These ' wingy things' are getting me pretty excited now

Cheers

Paul
lampie
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, September 17, 2010 - 11:38 PM UTC
Hi Paul.
This may be of interest.
Alclad Adventures

Nige
ppawlak1
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Saturday, September 18, 2010 - 01:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Paul.
This may be of interest.
Alclad Adventures

Nige



Thanks Nige !

I've already bookmarked Nigel Julians fantastic writeup.

Any 1/48 P-47 builders here with tips on the NMF and decal application ?

Cheers

Paul
vonHengest
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 04:47 PM UTC
Paul: I have no advice to offer you regarding NMF and decals as I am in the same boat as you. I'll hang with your thread instead of creating a new one if you don't mind.
Cheers

Jeremy
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 06:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

do I need to do something special to prevent decal silvering (and a quality outcome with the kit markings) during their application ?



The big problem with silvering is the excess clear film around a decal. No film, no silvering. Careful trimming around opaque markings, such as national insignia, will remove the film. The problem is data stenciling, codes, etc. with large areas of film around small printings.

A smooth surface eliminates 99% of silvering troubles. But NMF still reveals the carrier film. How obvious depends upon the quality of the decal. I have seen some NMF models with the codes cut away from the film. Time consuming! If you can mask and paint the markings, better still, though still time consuming. I wish a manufacturer would produce common stenciling as dry-transfers.


Quoted Text

...am I better off going for AM decals instead of those in the Tamiya...Hasegawa's...?



The last time I used their decals was 3 years ago. The decals were not that great. Most AM's have the thinner decal carrier film.
vonHengest
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Monday, September 20, 2010 - 05:53 PM UTC
Paul: I was just reading a recent issue of FSM that I picked up from the local bookstore up here that features an article discussing the use of Alclad II on a P-47. I believe the author of the article used Polished Aluminum, which also requires the use of gloss black as a base, and it was mentioned that it is recommended to use the thinnest decals possible over Alclad II. The reason for this being that the decal setting solution reacts with the Alclad II, and I'm sure it isn't a pretty sight. Hope this helps a bit with your decisions mate
ppawlak1
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Monday, September 20, 2010 - 05:58 PM UTC
Thanks Frederick, Jeremy,

I have the 4 sets of Zotz 1/48 P-47 decals on the way, I've also got some "Life Like" decals coming.

I'll check these decals out for quality, hopefully the clear film is quite short on the edge of the printed sections.

Once the paint gets here I'll also practice NMF finishing on an old kit or some scraps of styrene .

Cheers

Paul
drabslab
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European Union
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Posted: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 05:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text


The big problem with silvering is the excess clear film around a decal. No film, no silvering. Careful trimming around opaque markings, such as national insignia, will remove the film. The problem is data stenciling, codes, etc. with large areas of film around small printings.



"large areas of film around small printings"

The issue is that the air trapped under the film can not "migrate" from under the film.

I have found a trick that often helps minimising the problems


First I place the decal using microset and microsol.

Once dry, and if silvering appears, i prik holes in the film, or even cut it carefully using a new and sharp exacto knife.

then i add some microset or sol on top of the decal. Usually, and if you have pricked suffieint holes, capilarity is pulling the microset through the holes under the decal replacing the air.

this is not a 100% fix but it usually gives an improvement
CaptainA
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 08:05 AM UTC
When appying decals, it is most important to remove any trapped air underneath, as previously mentioned. Be sure to have a soft dry cloth when applying decals. Use to cloth to squeeze the decals to the surface. This goes a long wany in removing trapped air. Having a perfectly smooth/glossy surface is really important to applying decals also. You don't want to add future over an allclad finish, so it is really important to have that surface prepared before the allclad and smooth decals with the cloth.

As for AM vs. Kit Supplied decals, most manufacturers are supplying high quality decals in recent kits. Some of them are outsourced to companys who supply some of the highest quality decals available, at a premium price. There are a few Manufacturers who supply decals I throw away as soon as I open the box. You probably don't need to be concerned as the company I am thinking of does not have any P-47s on the market. Some of the older kits also have quality decals, that are usable, but might need some precautions taken to use. Your kit might have these. They are good decals and are quite thin. But if you use the wrong decal solution on them, they will melt into a blob of goo. Since you are using Allclad, you probably won't be using solutions anyway. So just put this thought in the back of your head for future use. If you are asking for suggestions, find the decals you need to build the bird you want, and go with them. If the kit has the scheme you want to do, there is no need to spend extra money. Of you browse through the miriad of decals available, you are sure to find something you like. If you do, go with that.

Modeling is a very personal thing. Some people may choose a scheme because they like the colors, another persone may choose to do the scheme of a relative, friend, ace, or hometwon hero. Still others may choose to go with the decals provided because this hobby can run up the $$$ real quick. Ultimately, you need to decide what your goal is for your build. I have given you a lot to think about. But remember the two most important things are we are here to help you along the way, and we like pictures.

Have fun
ppawlak1
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 07:54 PM UTC
Thanks Guys,

I'm going to practice on a nice big piece of Evergreen Styrene Sheet.

I'll also be using Tamiya Gloss Black (X-1) as the base.

I can't wait until the Alclad arrives

Cheers

Paul
vonHengest
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Monday, September 27, 2010 - 08:47 AM UTC
Awesome Paul, looking forward to seeing how it works out for you! I just picked up some Alclad II and a couple of Roden WWI biplane engines to test it on