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Using Xtracrylix
alpha_tango
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 01:43 AM UTC
Hi friends of acrylic paints

I bought some of Hannants Xtracrylix range and started to used the Flat Varnish. First I used it from the bottle which did not work, as it is too thick. then I used
Tamiya X-20A ---> gooey mess,
Aztek Airbrush cleaner (works a charm on Gunze and Tamiya) ---> gooey mess
water --> no thinning (did not mix)

Last weekend I bought a bottle of their thinners, o.k. so far so good, but the FLAT varnish is not flat?! It adds a milky layer to the colours but stays glossy ? !!!

So either the product is worthless or I am doing something wrong. I keep my meagre vocabulary on swear words to myself, but I am set up...

Hints appreciated

all the best

Steffen
Bigskip
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 01:54 AM UTC
Steffen.

i use their flat varish all the time, thinned with hannants thinner, and it works fine for me. It'll thin with Warm Water as well.

i use LOTS of thin coats, rather than a couple of thicker ones.

HTH

Andy
alpha_tango
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 02:02 AM UTC
Thanks for your input Andy!

Well, I am use to Gunzes Flat which gives a dead flat finish from the first super thin layer. If I build it up in several thicker layers it also gives a slight white fog, but not that annoying effect this Xtraclylics stuff does. it is like thinned glossy white paint.

If I do nothing wrong, maybe i got a bad batch or something ?

Edit Maybe let's not mix thes two effects. Might be that the white has built up becaus i did too many layers but still when it is supposed to get flat? For further explanation: I used it on my P-47 cockpit because i prefer Citadel paints for detail painting and thes come glossy from their jars .. is Xtracrylix only intended for larger surfaces? (BTW After my fault with X-x I sprayed the pit with some Gunze leftovers and it worked instantly!!! so it cannot be blamed to the underlying paint & stuff)

all the best

Steffen

robot_
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 02:08 AM UTC
Hi Steffen,

I have been using this for a while now.

The milkiness of this varnish pretty much ruined my second model since returning to the hobby. I believe it occurs when you over-thin it. The glossiness occurs if, as Andy hints at, it is laid on too thick.

I now thin it only a little, and use a higher pressure than I normally use for paint, and have had no problems since. I use water to thin it- it takes a little stirring and shaking to mix it fully. I spray under a bright light, so I can see the surface reflections well, and slowly bring back the trigger until I just see the reflections disappearing. I find the point where I can see no other signs anything coming out of the airbrush or landing on the model other than reflections disappearing, then keep that held and cover the model. I return for another coat after a minute or so if it is not fully matt.
alpha_tango
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 02:18 AM UTC
Thanks Ben!

What ratio do you mean with overmixing I added 5-10% Thinners to the varnish and I only did because I had speckles all over when I sprayed it from the bottle. (I cant give exact numbers because I just added a bit and stirred the stuff until I though it looks right)

I normally use a pretty low pressure nowadays (about 1 bar /14.5psi this time) ... how much should I use?

Thanks again

Steffen
betheyn
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 02:47 AM UTC
I think (if I remember correctly) I thinned mine with white spirits. I also found that you had to really mix them together thoroughly, as the varnish seems to separate in the bottle.
A couple of thin sprays and I always had a really nice flat coat.
Andy
robot_
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 06:23 AM UTC
Steffen, I can't tell you exactly, I just add a drop of water- maybe 5%. I aim for something thicker than I do with paint. Try adding less thinner, and seeing if the sputtering goes away when you increase the pressure (I guess I sprayed it at around 22 psi for the triplane recently).

As Andy B says, it settles in the bottle (I assume you have the big bottle), so stir it up with something. Be careful with the white cap of the bottle, as mine split apart when I tightened it too much.

My theory on the milkiness being caused by over-thinning may be incorrect- as I don't think I stirred it up before spraying it the time it all went wrong. I just changed a few things, and I now don't have the problem (I was thinning it a lot before- maybe 40%).

Good luck, and report back what you find!
thegirl
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 06:55 AM UTC
Thank-you Steffen for bring up the topic !

I have tried Microscale's Micro flat with bad results . Always dried with a shine . After reading this I went back and mixed the bottle for 20 minutes and retried it . Nice flat finish ! I wasn't mixing it enough . Now don't I feel dumb in a blonde kinda way

alpha_tango
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 08:16 AM UTC
Many thanks Andy, Ben and Terri

the only thing I think possibly gone wrong is the mixing. I am not doing modelling since yesterday so believe me I did shake the bottle very well (no residue left on the ground of the bottle) .. guess I will give it several minutes in my ultrasonic cleaning device on my next try .. if that does not work it is not worth it . (period)

Again many thanks for all the input!

all the best

Steffen
Merlin
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Posted: Friday, October 23, 2009 - 09:36 AM UTC
Hi Steffen

I've never had a problem with Xtracrylix varnishes - both the matt and gloss that I've tried have gone on milky, but dried clear. I thin them with water, Liquitex Flow-Aid or isopropyl alchohol.

For what it's worth, my favourite acrylic flat varnish is Windsor & Newton's Galeria. Almost foolproof to use, their matt has little tendency to settle out and gives a lovely finish. Well worth checking out if you haven't already tried it.

All the best

Rowan
thegirl
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Posted: Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 02:51 AM UTC
Howdy Merlin !

I have seen the Windsor and Newton name here in Canada , but do you need to thin it and if so with what ?

Also what about the smell and drying time ?
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 11:06 AM UTC
Hi Terri

I thin the Galeria with Liquitex or plain water. There's very little smell and the drying time is pretty quick. Obviously, it'll vary with the climate, but when airbrushing it I usually reckon on about 20-30 mins to be safe to handle and re-coat. The matt varnish gives a really nice silky finish that get's progressively flatter with extra coats.

All the best

Rowan
thegirl
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Posted: Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 07:15 PM UTC
Thanks Rowan !

I been trying and looking for different products to get fully away form the lacquers , oil based products and this maybe the ticket , The shop here don't carry microscale all that much so it's nice to have something else on the work bench for an alternative
Antoni
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Posted: Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 06:39 AM UTC
I have taken to using Vallejo, mainly as there are two shops in Nottingham that sell it. The dropper bottles make it easy to dispense. Thins with water, no smell. I use a little retarder but I am not sure if its makes much of a difference. The matt dries with a bit of a sheen that might not suit some people but the satin has a very nice silky sheen. It tolerates being sprayed on a little to heavily but still dries to a nice even, hard coat.