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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
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Eduard 1:48 Fokker E.V Wknd kit #8480
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, July 31, 2009 - 07:50 PM UTC

Here is a bit of fun in the form of Eduard's most recent pressing. The re-issue of their fine 1/48 mold. Kit # 8480 is out. and as a weekender it has a large potential for some enjoyable building. It is supposed to represent the Fokker E.V flown by Theo Osterkamp, Marine Feld Jagdstaffel II, Belgium, 1918. But does it? More later.

Here was my first review of this mold when it premiered.
Click here.

Here is my build of the first issue kit.
Here.
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 04:18 PM UTC
Then lets begin with some recent research.

Dan San Abbott says, ". . .It is my opinion that the cowl was in Fokker dark olive green. The tailplane is yellow? The wing is not streaked like the other Fok.E.V machines, but is done in irregular polygons simulating the printed fabric in green, brown, blue and violet. This is an opinion based on what is visible on the leading edge of the wing. This is the only one that I have found with this odd finish. I have consulted others and they are of the same opinion. . . "

Then there is Jagdgeschwader Nr.II by Greg VanWyngarden, Osprey pub. Aviation Elite series #19, p.85, 2005.This reference shows Fokker E.V wings in vertical positions (stacked on their leading edges.) It would seem there is , wait, maybe aaah yes...the wings are streaked.

Then in the modeling community we have the research of a fellow modeler. ". . .All in all: The scheme seems to be highly improbable, being based on Osterkamp's verbal description of the marking of his *D VII*, then adapted for the E V replica. For the D VII, the markings makes a lot of sense: Sachsenberg, the Geschwaderkommandeur, was VERY systematic in the concept of Geschwader markings (more so than Richthofen or Berthold, for example), and he used the alternating squares/diamonds for his own aircraft (he commanded MFJ 1 as well as the Geschwader), whereas there are at least two combat reports for MFJ 3´s commander Brockhoff describing *horizontal* yellow and black stripes for his D VII - so the *vertical* stripes for Osterkamps MFJ 2 machine would give three clearly noticable markings for the three Staffelfuehrer. But all that only for the D VII in Osterkamp's case

And a more detailed synopsis was told to my old friend "Regulus" Hans Trauer by Volker Nemsch.

"As for the markings . . . the only "confirmation" for Osterkamps markings seems to come from a much later replica E V flown in England in the eighties. It is however possible that the aircraft (in the image where Osterkamp is sitting on the tire) was remarked - definitely probable if Osterkamp REALLY was shot down in that aircraft (E.V 156/18) on September 28, (1918) six weeks after the delivery. However, if shot down during a familiarsation flight, September 28, (1918) seems rather late. . .

But it seems clear to me that Osterkamp at least flew a D VII with the markings described for the E V -

Osterkamp with vertical stripes (only evidenced by his own description)

Osterkamp's earlier planes such as the Albatros DV had two black lines running around the fuselage. It made it have some resemblance with a bee. There exists a photo of another Albatros DIII which has such black stripes all over the fuselage. The other colour is uncertain. Was this Uncle Theo's plane ? Did he keep only 2 lines on his Alb. DV and changed with later planes back to an old pattern ? Or do we mix up two pilots in this case ?. . .

I'm also curious to know more about the copy of Osterkamp's plane that flew around in the UK. . ."

Dan San Abbott weighed in with, "I had read that Ltn.z.S.Theo Osterkamp did not like the Fok.E.V and only flew it a few times. see "FOKKER D.VIII" by P.M. Grosz, WINDSOCK DATAFILE 25, foot note (2), page 5."
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 04:35 PM UTC
My impression of the usual Fokker E.V / D.VIII uppersurface camouflage



Here is the undersurface camouflage.

JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 08:30 AM UTC
As is my montra for building, research is key. Here is a fellow building a fullscale totally accurate reproduction. (not a replica). WWI Aero and FTS

A bit of alright in 1:1 scale.




JackFlash
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Posted: Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 05:42 PM UTC
Here are some references.
Aerodrome Modeller, Vol.3, #3, P.125.
Air Enthusiast 17 Pp. 61 -73.
Eindeckers of World War I by D. Pardee, Cross & Cockade USA Vol.22, #4, Pp.331-343,1981.
Fokker D.VIII by J.M.Bruce, Profile Pub. #67, 1966.
Fokker D.VIII by P.M.Grosz, Windsock Datafile #25, Albatros Pub. Ltd. 1991.
Fokker D.VIII by P.M.Grosz, World War One Aero #86, September 1980.
Fokker E.V./ D.VIII by R. Rimell, Warpaint #5 Scale Models May 1979.
Fokker Fighters of WWI by A. Imrie, Osprey, Vintage Warbirds #6, Pp.53-55, 58-59, 1986.
Fokker’s D.VIII ...Reluctant Razor by P. Grosz, Air Enthusiast 17 Pp.61-73, 1980.
Fokker D.VIII Wing and Airfoils by C. Cash et al, World War One Aero #79, May 1980.
German Army Air Service in WWI, Osprey, Vintage Warbirds #2,Pp.26-27, 1985.
Info from Dan-San Abbott, unpublished.
Pictorial History of the German Army Air Service by A. Imrie, Ian Allen Pub. 1971.
Report on the Fokker Monoplane Type E.V, Report I.M.1015 Air Ministry June, 1920.
Royal Prussian Jagdstaffel Nr.36 by S.T.Lawson, Cross & Cockade Int. Vol.20, #1, Pp. 1989.
Scale Model Aircraft in Plastic Card by H.Woodman, Model & Allied Pub., 1975.
Serendipity at Aerdrome 92' by P.M.Grosz, World War One Aero, Pp.64-66, 1993.
U.S. Air Service’s Fokker D.VIII Monoplanes by B.Flanagan, Cross & Cockade USA, Vol.16, #1, Pp.83-92, 1975. (Fokker E.V P165 and P169 were tested at McCook Field 1920-22.)
World War One in the Air by R. Rimell, Osprey Pub. Vintage Warbirds #9, p.35,1988.
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, August 14, 2009 - 05:38 PM UTC
"In separating truth from fiction we try to see the origin of a subject and and recognize it for what it is." Dr. James J. Parks 1990. Dr. Parks was one of my mentors in the area of historical research. He was the founder of the The Lafayette Foundation and his works continue today.

I set about to research this scheme many years ago and its by Merlin's genious and generoisity that he sent it to me. The nearest thing to the truth here is a Fokker D.VII that was probably Osterkamp's had this yellow and black scheme. Now in the end since we know he flew the E.V 156/18 or 157/18 or at least was photographed with it he may have been assigned this machine at one point. The he was brought down in it on a familiarization flight and from his "memory " it was black and yellow. There are NO images of this machine in this livery in the public domain.

There was a full scale replica with a radial that was flown in England during the 1980's in this livery. More later.
alpha_tango
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Posted: Friday, August 14, 2009 - 09:30 PM UTC
Hi Stephen

very interesting info! I decided to build the plane with this c&m even if it is probably fiction. There is the pic of Sachsenbergs E.V with the checkers (just visible) and given that the aircraft were grounded for some time, there is at least a faint possibility that such a machine existed ....

all the best

Steffen
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 07:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Stephen, Very interesting info! I decided to build the plane with this c&m even if it is probably fiction. There is the pic of Sachsenbergs E.V with the checkers (just visible) and given that the aircraft were grounded for some time, there is at least a faint possibility that such a machine existed ....

all the best Steffen



For you Steffen here is a bit of fun on the subject of Sachsenberg's Diamond studded bird.
Click here.
alpha_tango
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Posted: Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 08:42 AM UTC
Thank you Stephen!

but I will stick to Osterkamp ... need to be suitable for "Stripes in the sky" .. when my Corsiar is finished I will start on the Fokker E.V .. I will use a few parts from the Flashback kit .. maybe the decals too .. depending on how much time I will have left for masking the stripes ...

all the best

Steffen
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 09:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thank you Stephen!

but I will stick to Osterkamp ... need to be suitable for "Stripes in the sky" .. when my Corsiar is finished I will start on the Fokker E.V .. I will use a few parts from the Flashback kit .. maybe the decals too .. depending on how much time I will have left for masking the stripes ...

all the best

Steffen



Just a heads up here. If memory serves me well, the Flashback resin cockpit tub has moldings in reverse of their correct positions.
alpha_tango
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Posted: Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 09:42 AM UTC
Thanks again Stephen

but I am just going to used the resin MGs (not as good as PE cooling jackets, but better than the plastic ones I hope) and some PE ...

Eduard has come a loooong way since the first WW1 releases. .. still they screw up things but most model kits (no matter what manufacturer) have one or another -more or less "fatal" - flaw

all the best

Steffen
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 05:59 PM UTC
I really wish Eduard would do a PE set for the interior structure. Maybe Part of Poland will oblige?
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 - 12:10 PM UTC
Most of you will remember our bird dressed up as Sachsenberg's mount.

See here.
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 - 12:25 PM UTC
Here are some sprue shots.









JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 - 12:27 PM UTC
Here is Ltn. Osterkamp's E.V 156/18 in its factory markings.



Quoted Text

Then lets go back to some recent research.

Dan San Abbott says, ". . .It is my opinion that the cowl was in Fokker dark olive green. The tailplane is yellow? The wing is not streaked like the other Fok.E.V machines, but is done in irregular polygons simulating the printed fabric in green, brown, blue and violet. This is an opinion based on what is visible on the leading edge of the wing. This is the only one that I have found with this odd finish. I have consulted others and they are of the same opinion. . . I had read that Ltn.z.S.Theo Osterkamp did not like the Fok.E.V and only flew it a few times. see "FOKKER D.VIII" by P.M. Grosz, WINDSOCK DATAFILE 25, foot note (2), page 5."



Anyone notice the dished areas under the wing? This was supposed to be a newer aircraft. Now if Jasta 6 got their E.V in mid-August 1918 (among them were 154/18 & 157/18) Then we may be able to say that Marine Feld Jasta II commander Ltn. zur See, T. Osterkamp rec'd this machine at roughly the same time.
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 - 12:53 PM UTC
Here is a bit of fun on an in the box review with some additional images.

Click here.
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, August 22, 2009 - 09:20 AM UTC
HHhhhmmm!

JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 03:16 PM UTC
Since there have been several online builds of this aircraft in the possible scheme of yellow and black fuselage banding, I am considering doing this in the factory standard scheme. But with a slight modification of having the horizontal tail unit in yellow with the two black bars on each elevator. (MFJ II unit markings). I will also go with Microsculpt lozenge and the wing will be done via Dan San Abbott's theory.
JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 04:43 PM UTC
Author Greg VanWyngarden has written the following.


Quoted Text

"Hi,

First of all, it would have been an E.V, and not a D.VIII (sorry, I'm nitpicking).

Secondly, I have seen models and box top art depicting this yellow/black striped scheme, but as far as I know it's totally fictitious. There was a full-size flying replica in this scheme in England some time ago, (1980's ed.) and I believe this to be the source of all those models, etc.

Yes, Osterkamp was photographed with a factory-finish E.V 156/18, but he only flew this briefly if at all. And yes, there are reliable reports that he flew a Fokker D.VII (biplane) marked with vertical yellow/black stripes on the fuselage, but I've never even seen a photo of that aircraft, let alone a "bumblebee' marked E.V. If someone could prove me wrong here with an authentic 1918 photo, then, hey-I'd be a happy camper.

None of this should prevent you from buidling your . . . model and finishing it in this color scheme if you want. Have fun! I just wanted to point out that I feel it's a hypothetical color scheme at best.

Greg"


thegirl
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Posted: Monday, September 14, 2009 - 12:58 AM UTC
Yorktown 1944 , that's a good one .

Should be an interesting build once you start Stephen . Will you also be using the texture decals as well over top of the lozenge ?
JackFlash
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Posted: Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 04:43 PM UTC
Parts for several kits (1 @ Eduard & 2 @ DML) get prepped this weekend.

JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 07:14 PM UTC
This project is still underway and I have images I can post. But it will have to wait while we shift gears on the forum. Also for those interested the "P" serial prefix on many McCook field aircraft rudder / fins means "Project".