login   |    register
General Aircraft
This forum is for general aircraft modelling discussions.
Hosted by Kevin Brant
Aircraft Trivia Quiz 2 (Join In)
gastec
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: February 03, 2014
KitMaker: 1,026 posts
AeroScale: 120 posts
Posted: Monday, February 03, 2020 - 09:29 AM UTC
January 4th 1942 - Japanese aircraft carrier Chitose was bombed by B-17 Flying Fortresses off Davao City but damage sustained was negligible.
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,302 posts
AeroScale: 760 posts
Posted: Monday, February 03, 2020 - 11:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

January 4th 1942 - Japanese aircraft carrier Chitose was bombed by B-17 Flying Fortresses off Davao City but damage sustained was negligible.



Sorry no, the Davao attack was not the first.
VR, Russ
gastec
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: February 03, 2014
KitMaker: 1,026 posts
AeroScale: 120 posts
Posted: Monday, February 03, 2020 - 11:54 AM UTC
Grumman F4F Wildcat fighters of Marine Fighter Squadron VMF-211 attacked ans sunk Kisaragi on Dec 11th 1941.
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,302 posts
AeroScale: 760 posts
Posted: Monday, February 03, 2020 - 12:46 PM UTC
Gary,
Nope, they were not the first. Getting “warmer” though!


Another clue— this was not a planned attack as much as “a target of opportunity”. And only one aircraft was involved.
VR, Russ
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 7,229 posts
AeroScale: 3,609 posts
Posted: Monday, February 03, 2020 - 03:28 PM UTC
I will have a stab at this one.

Was it Colin Kelly in his B-17 (14th Bombs Squadron, 19th Bomb Group) at Luzon in the Phillipines on December 10? He was on his way to attack enemy positions in Taiwan when he spotted the landing forces.

Cheers, D

https://www.irishecho.com/2011/02/60-years-ago-colin-kelly-americas-first-world-war-ii-hero-2/
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,302 posts
AeroScale: 760 posts
Posted: Monday, February 03, 2020 - 06:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I will have a stab at this one.

Was it Colin Kelly in his B-17 (14th Bombs Squadron, 19th Bomb Group) at Luzon in the Phillipines on December 10? He was on his way to attack enemy positions in Taiwan when he spotted the landing forces.

Cheers, D

https://www.irishecho.com/2011/02/60-years-ago-colin-kelly-americas-first-world-war-ii-hero-2/



Nope, not Colin Kelly.
VR, Russ
ReluctantRenegade
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,286 posts
AeroScale: 105 posts
Posted: Monday, February 03, 2020 - 08:04 PM UTC
Was it an attack on a German U-Boot?

Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,302 posts
AeroScale: 760 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 03:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Was it an attack on a German U-Boot?




No, not a U-Boot. But you’re getting closer. Time for a clue I think. This attack was made in conjunction with a surface vessel.
VR, Russ
ReluctantRenegade
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,286 posts
AeroScale: 105 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 05:30 AM UTC
OK, then let's try this: on 10 December, 1941, the I-70 Japanese submarine was sunk north of Hawaii by an SBD Dauntless dive bomber of VS-6 from USS Enterprise.
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,302 posts
AeroScale: 760 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 10:26 AM UTC
Israel,
No, not the SBD. But you are getting “much warmer” though. Another clue: Don’t confuse a formal war declaration with the opening of hostilities.
VR, Russ
ReluctantRenegade
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,286 posts
AeroScale: 105 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 05:29 PM UTC
The Japanese midget submarine I-22 tou was sunk by USS Ward on 7 December, before the main striking force hit Pearl Harbor. The destroyer was assisted by a PBY-5 Catalina from VP-14.
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,302 posts
AeroScale: 760 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 07:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The Japanese midget submarine I-22 tou was sunk by USS Ward on 7 December, before the main striking force hit Pearl Harbor. The destroyer was assisted by a PBY-5 Catalina from VP-14.



Israel,
You got it. That PBY-5 from VP-14 gets half credit for sinking that mini-sub. The Ward’s first shot missed, the second went through the conning tower, but the sub dove and was then depth charged by the PBY, making it the first US aircraft to attack an enemy ship during WWII. The action took place just outside Pearl Harbor before the Japanese attack. Over to you.
VR, Russ
gastec
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: February 03, 2014
KitMaker: 1,026 posts
AeroScale: 120 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 07:55 PM UTC
I found that action record but there was no mention of aircraft being involved so dismissed it
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,302 posts
AeroScale: 760 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 06:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I found that action record but there was no mention of aircraft being involved so dismissed it



It is not well known. Excerpt From page 25 of Bert Kinsey’s excellent book “Attack on Pearl Harbor - Japan Awakens a Sleeping Giant” Military Aviation Archives pub. 2010:

“At 0630, the stores ship USS Antares, ASK-3 was approaching the entrance to Pearl Harbor with a steel barge in tow. Her crew sighted what appeared to be a small submarine and alerted WARD”...”Meanwhile a Navy PBY-5 Catalina patrol plane arrived on the scene. This PBY-5 was from Patrol Squadron FOURTEEN (VP-14) based at NAS Kaneohe Bay and was flown by Ensign William P. Tanner”...”At 0645, and at a range of 100yards, the WARD opened fire”...”but the shot missed”...”A second shot, fired from the number three four inch gun at a range of approximately fifty yards struck the conning tower”...”The Catalina followed with an attack of its own, and Ensign Tanner dropped a depth charge on the spot where he estimated the bow of the submarine to be as it disappeared beneath the surface. With this attack, the Americans fired the first shots of the attack, and of WWII in the Pacific.”

And thus, lowly PBY-5, BuNo. 2491, became the first US aircraft to attack an enemy vessel in WWII. It was one of three Catalinas on patrol around the Island at the time of the attack. One another note, Ensign Tanner radioed he had destroyed the sub, but his report was amended later to indicate the Ward’s role, so they both shared the credit. But, as history would have it, the Ward’s attack has been remembered , while Tanners attack has been forgotten.

Fortunately, for those that model such aircraft, Wolfpack Decals and Academy Models have recently teamed together and released a kit of this very same PBY-5 aircraft, 14-P-1 —if you are so inclined to model it. I received the kit as an Xmas present, but didn’t realize until just recently the kit includes decals for 14-P-1. It’s a very nice packaging of this old (but still great). Academy model. The kit is here:

https://store.spruebrothers.com/product_p/wpd17204.htm

VR, Russ
ReluctantRenegade
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,286 posts
AeroScale: 105 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 08:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I found that action record but there was no mention of aircraft being involved so dismissed it



I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the first action of US planes in WW2 against an enemy vessel involved a submarine but couldn't recall the exact details. I too dismissed the sinking of the Japanese midget-sub by USS Ward in Pearl Harbour at first, but then I've investigated the incident further and found out about the involvement of the PBY-5.
ReluctantRenegade
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,286 posts
AeroScale: 105 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2020 - 06:30 AM UTC
Speaking of aircrafts vs submarines: what kind of 'first' was the sinking of U-451?

2002hummer
#257
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Ontario, Canada
Joined: October 11, 2011
KitMaker: 780 posts
AeroScale: 451 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2020 - 07:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Speaking of aircrafts vs submarines: what kind of 'first' was the sinking of U-451?




It was attacked by a German He111 aircraft (1H+ML of 3./KG 26, pilot Oblt Fischbach)on Sept 17 1941. The aircraft pilot thought it was a Soviet K class sub. It was later sunk by a Swordfish aircraft (812 Sqn FAA/A) on Dec 21, 1941.
ReluctantRenegade
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,286 posts
AeroScale: 105 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2020 - 08:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It was later sunk by a Swordfish aircraft (812 Sqn FAA/A) on Dec 21, 1941.



This is the part my question relates to...

2002hummer
#257
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Ontario, Canada
Joined: October 11, 2011
KitMaker: 780 posts
AeroScale: 451 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2020 - 09:31 AM UTC
I may need a day to come up with a good question
ReluctantRenegade
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,286 posts
AeroScale: 105 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2020 - 06:39 PM UTC
Darrell, you're just describing the loss of the submarine . My question is: what kind of 'first' was the sinking? The game is still on...
gastec
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: February 03, 2014
KitMaker: 1,026 posts
AeroScale: 120 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2020 - 08:05 PM UTC
First vessel sunk using ASV radar?
ReluctantRenegade
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,286 posts
AeroScale: 105 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2020 - 08:39 PM UTC
Nope.
gastec
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: February 03, 2014
KitMaker: 1,026 posts
AeroScale: 120 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2020 - 09:25 PM UTC
First night sinking of a U-Boat.
ReluctantRenegade
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,286 posts
AeroScale: 105 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2020 - 09:29 PM UTC
Bingo! The first night sinking of a submarine by an aircraft. The floor is yours, Gary.

gastec
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: February 03, 2014
KitMaker: 1,026 posts
AeroScale: 120 posts
Posted: Friday, February 07, 2020 - 01:37 PM UTC
Ok, what was the last RAF aircraft to be shot down over Germany?