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kyaw25
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United Kingdom
Joined: August 25, 2008
KitMaker: 24 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 06:29 AM UTC
Hi everyone, this is my first post at this forum. I am a absolute beginner and recently bought an airfix 1/72 supermarine spitfire Mk Vc for 4.99. Everything is fine with a bit of trouble with gluing landing gears and disaster struck with decals. When i apply decals they seem to fit not very well and after 30 minutes or so a part of the decal lift of. And i use matt paint. Is that a problem? and should i use decal setting solution? Any advice welcome
Thanks
alpha_tango
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Germany
Joined: September 07, 2005
KitMaker: 5,609 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 06:41 AM UTC
Hi Kyaw

sometimes it is helpful to browse a little .. .I have given my 2ct just a few posts below (in Aeroscale latest posts)

http://www.aeroscale.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=124088&page=1

Hope that helps .. if you have more questions just ask.

greets

Steffen
kyaw25
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United Kingdom
Joined: August 25, 2008
KitMaker: 24 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 07:00 AM UTC
What is the difference between matt and gloss. And there seems to be white stuff around decals.
Could you recommend what kit should i get next?

Thanks
alpha_tango
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Germany
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Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 07:20 AM UTC
Hi again

the problem with matt (flat) is, that the surface is rough and not smooth as gloss. If you slide the decal on a flat surface it adheres not good to the rough layer below and thus you can get lifting decals or -much more common- silvering. That is air trapped below the decal mostly looking white or "silver".

As for your next kit: try a Tamiya kit. If that is too expensive to you, maybe try a Revell kit. The problem is that Revell issues very old kits and new kits at the same time. The new kits are well engineered, while the older ones can be harder to build. Hasegawa follows a similar approach.

all the best

Steffen
kyaw25
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United Kingdom
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KitMaker: 24 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 07:36 AM UTC
Thanks again Steffen. So is it ok if i paint the whole model with gloss paint in the first place. And i am painting with brushes.
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
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Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 07:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So is it ok if i paint the whole model with gloss paint in the first place. And i am painting with brushes.



Welcome to the site

Yes, painting with gloss is a good idea. Some paints are issued by the paint company in gloss. The only problem is that if you let the paint begin to cure, gloss ( and matt) will have brush strokes. These can--not always, but can--give the same decal trouble as applying the decals to a matt surface.

A better idea is to buy Future Floor Wax! Future brushes on easily, cleans with water, and is self-leveling, i.e., smooths itself out even if you leave brush marks. Another great feature of Future, it removes instantly with ammonia. I've done this many times on acrylic and enamel without any damage to the paint.

Brush painting can take a bit of practice--don't give up! And if model building remains a fun hobby for you, eventually you can progress to spray cans and/or buy an airbrush.

Plenty of helpful people on this site to ask about anything.
kyaw25
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United Kingdom
Joined: August 25, 2008
KitMaker: 24 posts
AeroScale: 22 posts
Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 07:57 AM UTC
Thanks Fred, so if i were to buy an airbrush which would you recommend. It would be very good if it between £0-£50. I would use compressed air cans in first place.Are they ok?
thegirl
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 19, 2008
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Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 09:52 AM UTC
Nothing wrong with using cans of air . I did for years before I got my first compressor . You do have to watch one thing or more . You will be able to do about 3 kits depending on the scale . The cans get cold fast and you will lose air pressure . It's best to place can in a saucer of warm , room temp water . This will help on keeping the cans warm .
Tomcat31
#042
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England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: November 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 01:11 AM UTC
Welcome to the site,

FYI, Future Floor Wax is called Johnson's Klear here in the UK. As for an airbrush Badger do a good starter (using a single action 200 model airbrush) set for around the £50 mark.

Air cans are a good starting point for an airbrush but a compressor although expensive at the outlay will prove cheaper over time. One tip for air cans is to put them in a vase of warm water as this will help stop the can from freezing and the pressure dropping.

Hope this helps

Allen
Belt_Fed
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,376 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 03:51 AM UTC
I would reccomend an Iwata Revolution Airbrush. They were specificly designed to be the best in their price range. its pretty much a $150 that costs about 75$. So yea, i would get that. I would also recomend using a compressor. Air cans are impossible to get a stead, low pressure. IF you crank the nob just a bit, you will get 25 PSI, but with a compressor you can spray as low as 5psi (and lower if you need it)

Compressors are expensive (mine was 250 i think), but it pays for itself in time. However, i would stick with brushes for now, brush painting is something that takes time and patience to get correct, and thats the way we all started.
alpha_tango
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Germany
Joined: September 07, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 04:23 AM UTC
Hi all

Well, I started with the cheapest Badger single action /syphon fed for 20 German Mark and the cans. I used it for about a year until I found air brushing is my way of doing things. I still use the same compressor which I bought in the early 1990ies The air guns changed of curse and got more expensive over time. I used the Testors/Model Master/Aztek 470 for a long time (because the handling and cleaning is very easy as is the nozzle change). Now I have a Gabbert Triplex because the Aztek wore out in about 5-7 years (I had 3 of them one after the other)...

So I would start cheap for the first tries. You cannot do fine mottle with that but you get a feel fo this kind of tool and single action is also good to first get the fine tunig for air flow. Later you can easier decide what you want as a profi equipment ...

just my two €-cent

Steffen
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 04:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Fred, so if i were to buy an airbrush which would you recommend. It would be very good if it between £0-£50. I would use compressed air cans in first place.Are they ok?



Hi Kyaw,
Airbrushes run the range from toys to precision artist tools. You will find lots of "which AB to buy" Q&As on the site.

I started with a very cheap Badger, their 150. It just saturated with paint. Then I got their 200 and used it 20 years. It allowed spray patterns of 1" to about 1/8". Then I bought a Passche VL that could spray as fine as 1/16". Then, I was given what I considered a toy, a Model Master Aztek, and snobbishly shelved it because 'a Passche is the professionals' choice'!. Finally I used the Aztek once...haven't touched the Badger or Passche since! It's performance is just as good, and its easy of use and maintenance is far, far superior!

I would advise the Aztek/Model Master. The new Iwatas/Badgers/Passches, they can give you performance the Aztek lacks, but not by much, and only if you need extremely fine lines.

Air cans work, but get expensive. A compressor is the way to got and will pay for itself depending how much you spray. Preferably, get a reservoir compressor--no sputtering and no moisture.

Regrds, Fred
kyaw25
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United Kingdom
Joined: August 25, 2008
KitMaker: 24 posts
AeroScale: 22 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 06:28 AM UTC
Thanks everyone for all the advice. Well, the decals didn't go well. I ripped off all decals as they lift off
and didn't stick. So, my spitfire is without any decals. When i go to my local hobby shop this time shall i get Microset, Microsol or both. Is it ok with a F-86 Sabre for a second model?
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,464 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 06:11 PM UTC
Poor Spitfire! However, I dare say someone on the site has some 1/72 Spit decals they would part with. I might, too. I'll look, but be warned, I get busy and forgetful.

A Sabre would be an excellent 2nd model!
Phil_H
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: November 10, 2005
KitMaker: 546 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 06:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks everyone for all the advice. Well, the decals didn't go well. I ripped off all decals as they lift off
and didn't stick. So, my spitfire is without any decals. When i go to my local hobby shop this time shall i get Microset, Microsol or both. Is it ok with a F-86 Sabre for a second model?



If your decals aren't staying put, you may be making the mistake of allowing them to soak for too long.

The following is a repost of a "decalling primer" which I posted recently on another (FSM) forum.

Quoted Text

Like most things, there's a process to applying decals.

    Use a shallow dish of slightly warm (not hot) water. It's easier to chase down a stray decal in half an inch of water than it is at the bottom of a tall, narrow glass or jar.

    Cut out each individual decal when you need it. Don't dip the whole sheet in the water or you will have a very bad day.

    Don't drop the decal in and wait for it to float off the backing paper. The glue which holds it to the paper is the same glue which holds it on your model. If you soak it long enough that it floats off, this means the glue is gone. Dip the individual decal in the water, then take it out and put it on a hard waterproof surface. If you watch closely, you can see the backing paper darkening as it becomes saturated. Once it's uniformly saturated (using tweezers, pick up the decal by the edge and look at the back - there should be no white spots or light areas where the water hasn't soaked through) gently test with a wet fingertip to see if the decal slides freely on the backing paper. If it doesn't, put it down for another 10 seconds or so and check again. If it slides freely on the backing paper, it's ready to apply.

    Don't be tempted to peel the wet decal off the backing paper - it will fold in on itself faster than you can blink.

    Using a pair of tweezers, hold the decal/backing paper over the desired spot on your model. Use a moistened (with water) paintbrush to gently hold the decal in position and slide the backing paper out from under it.

    If the decal isn't in the exact position you want, you can gently prod it into position. If it's uncooperative and won't move, dip a paintbrush in your water dish and apply a little water to the edge of the decal. This water will be drawn underneath, giving you a film of water between the decal and the model on which you can "float" the decal into the required position.

    If there is any excess water on or under the decal, wick it away by gently touching the corner of a paper towel to the edge of the decal.

    If you have multiple adjoining decals which must align with each other, do one at a time and allow to dry before adding another.



If you are going to use setting solutions, it's essential that the underlying surface is gloss coated (or gloss painted).

When you apply a setting solution, the first thing that will happen is the decal will appear to shrivel and wrinkle. This is completely normal, so don't be tempted to try to flatten it out.

As the decal dries, it will flatten out and snuggle down on the surface. This is why the surface must be glossy. A flat painted surface will cause drag and may not allow the decal to flatten out completely before it dries. If this happens, the decal will dry wrinkled and creased.
Nito74
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
ARMORAMA
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Lisboa, Portugal
Joined: March 04, 2008
KitMaker: 5,378 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 03:39 AM UTC
Some basic concepts about painting techniques
hope it helps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_painting_(hobby)
kyaw25
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United Kingdom
Joined: August 25, 2008
KitMaker: 24 posts
AeroScale: 22 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 09:05 AM UTC
So can i use future floor wax/ johnson's klear instead of gloss paint? And all by brush?
I also found two airbrushes from Kestrel:AB7011 Single action air brush kit and Badger:AB250-2 Bottom feed single action external mix air brush kit.
Are they any good?They cost around £11-£16.
Thanks
Siderius
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: September 20, 2005
KitMaker: 1,747 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 09:43 AM UTC
Wanted to put my two cents in as well. I agree with Fred, the Aztek is a great airbrush and easy to use. All of my models built in the last eleven years have been sprayed with Aztek 4709. This airbrush gives you both single action, push the lever down for fixed amount of paint, and double action, push down for more air and pull back for more paint, control, an excellent buy. The Aztek double action alone is realy all you need though if you want to save a little money.

I agree that the investment in an air compressor is ideal. It provides you with a steady flow of constant air pressure and gives you acess the limitless air! I also recommend the acrylic paints for ease of use. You can use Model Master Acryl, Polly Scale, or Tamiya. All good paints although Tamiya I have found needs to be thinned more than the rest.

As for decals, they are a constant frustration. No matter how good you are, you often are only as good as your decals. Preparing the surface of the model with a gloss coat is a must, but even then, and with the application decal softening agent, some decals will still silver at least a little! That is frustrating to say the least.

Most recently I have applied some USAF markings on a F-82; the decals were cobbled together from Hobbycraft, Revell of Germany, and Revell. Some of the decals were simply unuseable. Yikes! I ended up using a little bit of black paint around the decals to hide some of the silvering with I couldn't get rid of.

Most of all have fun. That is what this hobby is about. There will always be someone better than you, and someone who is behind you as well. Don't worry about, do the best you can and produce a model to your satisfaction. Hope this helps. All the best. Russell
Hoss
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Georgia, United States
Joined: January 05, 2006
KitMaker: 96 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 09:21 PM UTC
If you can afford an airbrush you will not be disappointed. It takes practice to get good results but it far surpasses results normally achieved by brush painting....of course there are the true artists out there that do a very nice job with the brush. Like airbrushing - practice, practice, practice.

Word of caution. Do not get too wrapped up in the notion that your entry into the hobby will start with the level of work that you routinely see on this and other web sites. It certainly should be an inspiration...I know it sure is for me...but all I'm saying is that it takes time and experience buiding lots of models to get to that level. The beautiful thing about it is when I started many years ago as a kid the web wasn't in the deal and it is a very valuable tool now for learning from other peoples experiences. Most of your fellow modelers are more that glad to share advice and lend a hand.

Now, my personnel fav in kits is anything Tamiya. I think for the money they are good kits. You can pay more for better and certainly pay less for, in my opinion, lesser kits. At this point maybe it wouldn't be bad to stay with less expensive kits just to get your feet under you. Concentrate on completeing OOB (out-of-box) builds that hone your skills in painting and perhaps some gap filling and sanding. As you become more comfortable in your newly developed skills then invest a litle more coin in a better kit and really try to make it a gem. I just completed work on my first Hasegawa kit and am very impressed with that company...trouble is I really miss my arm and leg!!!!!! Bit expensive!!!!!!!

Just my two cents worth. The biggest thing is enjoy the hobby. If you don't enjoy it then do something you can have fun with.

Kirby