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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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Aeroscale P-47 Thunderbolt SIG
Manzara
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Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Joined: July 19, 2008
KitMaker: 4 posts
AeroScale: 3 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 04:53 PM UTC
Hi!
Here´s a not so good pic of my Hasegawa 1/72 Jug converted to TP-47G specs.
Scratchbuilt cockpits and gear wells. Squadron canopies. Painting scheme and serial # taken from a picture in Air Enthusiast magazine.
Cheers,
Lúcio

lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: December 23, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 12:15 AM UTC
Hi Lucio.
Thats a very interesting conversion. Thanks for posting!
Id really like to know more about how you did the conversion, and do you have any more photos?

Your model gives me a good opportunity for a bit of background on two seater T'bolts.
The version youve modelled, the TP-47G was a batch of only 2 converted P-47G's built by Curtiss.
The forward fuel tank was removed to make room for a second cockpit, and the armament was retained, making 42-25266 and 42-25267 the only two seater trainer P-47's.


There were however,instances of P-47s being modified in the field.
One of which was P-47D 42-75276 "Category E" of the 56th FG.
This was the project of Staff Sergents Thurman Schreel and Charles Taylor.
Primarily used as liason aircraft, ( In Wolfpack Warriors theres an account of a pilot being sent out in the P-47 to collect one of DaveSchillings girlfiends. I wonder if this kind of liason was what it was designed for ), there are also reports of it being fitted with Rosebud Search radar and flying combat missions in April 1945.


Another, less complicated "in field" conversion, involved the removal of the armour plate behind the pilot and the fitting of a jump seat to enable pilots to carry a passenger. A popular use for the two seaters was to give ground crew an opportunity to fly in the aircraft they spent so many hours servicing, as is the case in this example from the 365th FG.


Nige
calvin2000
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Colorado, United States
Joined: July 25, 2007
KitMaker: 886 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 03:11 AM UTC
Hey all.
I have a question and maybe you guy's can answer it. In Zemke's book he mentions placing a camera in the bubble of his 'superbolt' anyone seen pics of how this is mounted and then one other thing where can I get a 72nd or 48th scale camera.
Thanks,
Kelly
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 03:30 AM UTC
Hi Kelly.
The "Superbolt" your refering to was the name given to the first "Bubbletops" delivered to the 56th. The P-47M were also nicknamed Superbolts later in the war.
The camera thats mentioned in Zemkes book was fitted behind the armour plating at the rear of the cockpit and faced sideways, so that the plane had to be banked in order to photograph the ground. No photos that I can lay my hands on Im afraid.
A few of the 56ths top pilots had them fitted as far as Im aware.
I dont know where youd get hold of an AM camera,but it wouldnt be a photo reconn camera in the traditional sense as these would be too big I imagine.
Chances are it was a gun camera but I wouldnt be 100% sure.
Nige
calvin2000
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Colorado, United States
Joined: July 25, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 05:56 AM UTC
I did find a camera called a K-3B hand or electrically operated no dimensions but that is a possibility maybe.
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 07:47 AM UTC
Hi Kelly.
I think its very probable that the camera used was a standard gun camera.
These would be available "on site" and wouldnt require any special equipment other than a fabricated mounting bracket and an electrical switch.

Thats how Id go about it anyway
Nige
calvin2000
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Colorado, United States
Joined: July 25, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 08:38 AM UTC
Thanks for the info I will use that picture as a guide then and see what I can make. Kinda a glorified Kodak brownie
rdriscoll
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 24, 2007
KitMaker: 180 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 09:22 AM UTC
Nighe,

Thanks for the color photo of the nose. I had hoped that PYN UP decals would make this a subject of a decal sheet. Below is an excerpt from a letter and pdf that I sent them last year. Alas, PYNUP will not happen after the Meteor Production closed up earlier this year.

Hello,

I did some researching on a particular 56th FG P-47D. I offer this to you as a suggestion for a PYN UP decal subject. This subject will be able to done as a model several ways:
1. White nose, tailband and “Triss” 1943
2. White nose, tailband and without “Triss” (kill markings and pilot/crewchief panel) 1943
3. Yellow nose, tailband and without “Triss” (kill markings and pilot/crewchief panel) February 1944

USAAF COLOURS 3: American Eagles: P-47 Thunderbolt Units of the Eighth Air Force, Roger A. Freeman, page 43

Lt. Anthony R Carcione. Bethlehem, PA. 62nd Fighter Squadron. P-47D 42-7937 LM-Q "Triss" on R cowling. This artwork appeared on the L fuselage. Confirmation from "Ramrod to Emden" which shows both sides of the a/c.
Rex: Note there are neither kill markings nor PilotCrew Chief panel. Apparently, this is before the “Ramrod to Emden was filmed”
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery.php?Group=56&Style=item&origStyle=list&Item=83&Temp=767&searchString=
I do not know if you really need a separate white background for the artwork. It appears that the olive drab shows through.


Aces and Wingmen II Volume 2.

Aces and Wingmen II Volume 2.


56th Fighter Group (Osprey Publishing), R.A. Freeman, page 51. No “Triss” and the nose appears to be painted yellow. Rudder has not been painted to match. Also, I cannot tell if the starboard main gear cover is painted or it is just mud. So we can see from photos that Triss was removed when the nose was still painted white. No radio mast. Rear view mirror present.

Interesting point is that his aircraft was coded LM-Q and his crew chief was named Penrod. Ace Robert Johnson’s last aircraft was coded LM-Q (“Penrod and Sam”) and the crew chief was JC Penrod. Lower left corner seems to show start of nude artwork. This seems confirmed by next photo.

Next few pages show screen shots from “Ramrod to Emden”. The last few shots are from a sequence where we get to see both sides of his a/c. Does not appear to have “Triss” next to she devil nose art. Also, the nose and tail stripe are white (1943) as well as red bordered national insignia, just as we would expect. Lastly, I am not sure what the marking is on the bottom lip of the cowling front. It might be the letter "Q". Note mast is visible. No rearview mirror yet.








References:
• Littlefriends website: http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery.php?Group=56&Style=item&origStyle=list&Item=83&Temp=767&searchString=
• 56th Fighter Group (Osprey Publishing), R.A. Freeman, page 51
• Aces and Wingmen II Volume 2.
• USAAF COLOURS 3: American Eagles: P-47 Thunderbolt Units of the Eighth Air Force, Roger A. Freeman, page 43
• Ramrod to Emden (DVD) Victory Films Productions








lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 09:33 AM UTC
Some good information there Rex.
The film you mention that a lot of the photos are captured from, "Ramrod To Emden" was made around Sept 1943 for Hub Zemke to take back to the USA in October of that year.Shot at Halesworth it features many of the well known Wolfpack Pilots.
Its probably the best pictorial record of the 56th at Halesworth.

A popular pilot, Tony Carcione had a habit of keeping his radio on transmit when in action.
On 8th March 1944, this habit contributed to his downfall. Despite calling for help on the radio, due to the mic being held on "transmit" none of the other pilots could answer him to come to his aid, and Tony was shot down and killed in the vicinity of Minden, Germany.


Sadly, contracters have moved onto the old airfield during the last week and a lot of the remaining perimeter track and runways has been broken up and removed.
I havent visited there yet, but I understand that almost all of the remaining hardstandings, including hardstand #30 which featured in the SIG recently have now gone.

Nige
Apex1701
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: July 08, 2007
KitMaker: 38 posts
AeroScale: 30 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 06:50 AM UTC
@ Nigel:

Quoted Text


Are the decals from an aftermarket set?


Yep, SuperScale 48-940 61st FS/ 56 FG


Quoted Text


Will you be joining in the P-47 group build in 2009?


Yeah for sure...Soviet bubbletop :-))

Jean
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: December 23, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 07:43 AM UTC
Hi Jean.
A Soviet Bubbletop!,,I like it a lot. Thats really entering into the spirit of the group build, out of the ordinary paint schemes reflecting the huge variety of finishes available for the P-47.
Soon be 1st Jan everyone!
Dont forget to enlist in the Cave Tonitrum Campaign HERE
Watch this space for a very interesting development of the Aeroscale P-47 SIG in the near future.
Nige
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 08:25 AM UTC
As many of the larger scale Thunderbolt fans will be aware, one of the downsides to the Hasegawa 1:32 series of Bubbletops is the quality of the kits machine guns, or to be more accurate, the lack of quality to these parts.
Hasegawa have rectified this with the release of a set of metal machine gun barrels for the kits.

I'll be ordering a couple of sets soon for builds I have planned, but I cant help thinking that with a retail price of £7.99, its a bit of a price to pay for replacing parts that Hasegawa should really have got right first time. Tamiyas1:72 and 1:48th barrels prove how good they can look moulded in the traditional manner.
Just my pennies worth
Nige
Apex1701
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: July 08, 2007
KitMaker: 38 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 12:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Dont forget to enlist in the Cave Tonitrum Campaign


Done!!!

All the best.

Jean
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: December 23, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, September 07, 2008 - 11:03 PM UTC
With my work commitments its often very hard for me to attend shows, but with a combination of luck and good fortune this weekends Medway model show at the Royal Engineers Museum gave me the oportunity to hijack a small part of the Kitmaker/British Bulldogs stand and create the first P-47 SIG display. Thanks Mal!
I was extremely pleased with the response of vistors to the show and exhibitors alike, indeed the portable dvd player showing Thunderbolt related footage proved so popular that at one point on Saturday I was tempted to start serving drinks and popcorn there were so many people viewing.
A couple of photos of the weekends "event".




On Sunday afternoon the display was hijacked by certificates, as my Thunderbolts took first place in both the 1:72 and 1:48th classes in the competition

So,the P-47 SIGS first display. Thanks to Holdfast and Betheyn for bringing along some P-47s to show as well! Hopefully, with the developments I have planned for the SIG, it wont be too long before the group is in a position to have its own table.
Nige
LongKnife
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Jönköping, Sweden
Joined: April 25, 2006
KitMaker: 831 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 08, 2008 - 01:26 AM UTC
Congrats Nigel.

Those Bolts are worth the praise! Since it's quite some time to the campaign you've got me into finishing an old P35 EP1 i have. Just prop, gear and some weathering left now.
calvin2000
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Colorado, United States
Joined: July 25, 2007
KitMaker: 886 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 08, 2008 - 01:36 AM UTC
way to go!!!!
Congrats on winning..

Now get back to work
LongKnife
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Jönköping, Sweden
Joined: April 25, 2006
KitMaker: 831 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 03:51 AM UTC
Here's old grandpa' Jug, just about to get some yellow crowns on blue bottom.



This is HobbyCrafts old EP1, and I got rather surprised by the engine. Can be turned into a pretty little piece of machinery.



I've seen one more of these at the LHS and if someone here sits on pictures of a Phillipine defender (some of the ones stopped from export are said to have flown with mixed swedish-american markings) I'll build it asap.

I'm greatful for any help on that.
Tony
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 04:33 AM UTC
Ah,,old Grandpappy Jug, the P-35!
Looking very nice there Tony, and a welcome addition to the SIG.
As for photos of a P-35 in Swedish markings...........

Theres a preserved example in Swedish markings



Probably not 100% accurate but should provide you with some inspiration. even if you do want my beard to grow inwards at times
Nige
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 04:36 AM UTC
Tony.
There are plenty of closeup photos of the P-35 in the Swedish Airforce Museum to be found in this IPMS Stockholm Article
Nige
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: December 23, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 04:49 AM UTC
Tony, you may also enjoy this link.
A thread regarding US Aircraft in the Phillipines



It reports that in late 1941 the P-35's were overpainted in olive drab/netural grey.

Nige
LongKnife
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Jönköping, Sweden
Joined: April 25, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 10:43 PM UTC
Thanks Nigel.

I have got roughly one hour to the SwAF-museum, so I have a good grip on that one - and the similarities to the RE 2000 Falco. The last pic was spot on though. I'll check that site thoroughly. That pic alone can make me lift the curse right away So now it's back to shaving again!
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: December 23, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 10:30 AM UTC
Just back from a trip to the Wolfs Lair, and now that my latest build has been handed over I can at last post some photos of it without fear of giving the game away to Buzz Took, the recipient of the Razorback.
Theres quite a story behing the build, and all will be revealed in a feature article soon.
A couple of close ups of LM-F Bftsplk/Debt Collector.



"Nearly Home", the title of the painting in the background seems quite appropriate today.


Three of the people who help ensure that the 56th FG will never be forgotten.
L-R Keith Rogers,Buzz Took,Harold Johnson.


62nd and 63rd FS Razorbacks together again at Station 365 Halesworth (Holton)

Harold "Bunny" Comstocks UN-Y and Stanley "Fats" Morrills LM-F


Nige
PCampagnard
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Netherlands
Joined: September 10, 2008
KitMaker: 4 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 11:18 AM UTC
Dear fellow modellers,

I am building the Tamiya P-47D Razorback and would like to add a resin propeller however I am unable to find any data on which prop "Little Chief" used. Do any of you can provide some info on this?

Thanks in advance.
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: December 23, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 11:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Dear fellow modellers,

I am building the Tamiya P-47D Razorback and would like to add a resin propeller however I am unable to find any data on which prop "Little Chief" used. Do any of you can provide some info on this?

Thanks in advance.



Hi Patrick.
Welcome to Aeroscale and Welcome to the P-47 SIG
Frank Klibbes "Little Chief" was a P-47D-15 built at Farmingdale.
The specs from Republic show that this batch was factory fitted with the Curtiss C542S 12'2 diameter propeller. This is parts B32 and B33 in the Tamiya Razorback kit.
Photos of "Little Chief" show it fitted with the slightly larger(both in length and width) Curtiss propeller.A common "in field" modification as the wider bladed propellers became available.
This is parts # B34 and B35 in the Tamiya Kit with part B7 as the hub, which Tamiya correctly specify in the instructions.
No need to look for a resin propeller as the kit one is correct for Franks Thunderbolt.

I hope this answers your question, and what a great excuse to post a colour photo of 42-76179 HV-V "Little Chief"



Nige
PCampagnard
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Netherlands
Joined: September 10, 2008
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Posted: Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 11:01 PM UTC
Hi Nige,

It sure helps. Thanks for your valuable information. I can continue building my lovely "Razorback".

Keep up the good work!!!

Patrick